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Door frames out of plumb

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by ozzierenovator, 5 Mar 2013.

  1. ozzierenovator

    ozzierenovator

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    I'm rehanging all my internal doors as they were hung using non-rebated hinges (cheats hinges) and are crooked. While renovating I've discovered that whoever built this house didn't own a spirit level. As a result not one of the door frames is plumb and all my newly hung doors hang with a larger gap at either the top or bottom of the door/frame. So bad is the problem, if you stand back some distance you can see that the frame isn't straight. Obviously I don't want to remove and re-hang the frames - is there some way that I can adjust the hinges so that the door hangs within the frame. I've tried packing out alternating hinges on one of the doors to no effect. I'm at my wits end. :mad:
     
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  3. big-all

    big-all

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    all you can do is average the difference so 2 diagonally opposing corners are 25% outside the frame and the other 2 opposing are 25% inside with the center off the door will be will be correct
    so if the door sticks out 24mm this will equate to 6mm at each corner
     
  4. ozzierenovator

    ozzierenovator

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    No quite sure I folllow, Big all. I think I'll take a photo of one of the doors so you can see what I'm talking about. :confused:
     
  5. ivixor

    ivixor

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    My house is the same - not even slightly plumb or square.

    You just have to butcher the doors until it looks vaguely right.
     
  6. noseall

    noseall

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    I think mebbe BA was thinking they are out of plumb as the casing sits in the wall i.e. looking from the side, as opposed to the door legs and head being out of level i.e. looking at the door face on.
     
  7. ozzierenovator

    ozzierenovator

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    No, BA's correct - I think the problem is me not quite understanding BA's solution. If you close the doors and stand behind them the top corner on the handle side sits out about 7mm (on average) making the doors look like they're warped (which they aren't). On one particular door I've tried packing out the top hinge first on the jamb side then on the door side which made no difference. Then I repeated the same on the bottom hinge. I packed them out at various amounts - spent hours doing this. Do you think maybe I need to set the hinge out further away from the jamb or door edge? If so, which hinge would I need to adjust if the door sits out at the top? :confused:
     
  8. big-all

    big-all

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    assuming the bottom on the lock side is sticking out 7 mm the top off the hinge side will need to move about 1.5mm in the direction that will reduce the way the door has kicked out
    if the bottom lock side is sitting out by 7mm then push the top hinge out by around 1.75mm this will reduce the 7mm to near 5mm as the hinge is away from the corner
    you then pull the bottom hinge in by 1.75mm this will reduce the 5mm to around 2mm
     
  9. noseall

    noseall

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    1.75mm!

    You avin a larf B.A.?

    Do people actually work to within 1/4 of a millimeter? :eek:
     
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  11. rjm2k

    rjm2k

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    Can you post some photos to make it clear?
     
  12. Harbourwoodwork

    Harbourwoodwork

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    It all sounds a bit of a pickle ,some proper hinges would be a good start and help any adjustment as bigall has said
     
  13. big-all

    big-all

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    not sure how you expect to get an accurate finish :D

    you move one corner 1mm and the other 1mm you still have it sticking out about 4.5mm
    if you choose 2mm and 2mm its sticking out around 1mm

    its not an exact science its by eye what looks right rather than fractions off a mm the fractions are to give a guide as to what is required

    as a bench joiner /cabinet maker sub 1mm measurement and clearances are common
    if you need filler or extra glue to get the finished sized you have failed to give an up to standard finish
    yes we can go for 1-1.5mm gaps or inaccuracies as a compromise but that is lowering standards

    now you can move the door 3.5mm at one corner and live with 2 corners flush and 2 out by 3.5 or as i said above but what ever way you look at it 7 is not divisible by 4 without fractions being involved :D
     
  14. pinenot

    pinenot

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    I'm going to make some assumptions here.
    The door posts are full width of the walls...yes?
    Your walls are not plumb nor parallel to each other either side of the door posts, thereby when you hang the door it's flush on the hinge side but not on the closing side? (this is called out of wind)

    One question - are the door stops planted or rebated (nailed/screwed on, or cut outs (rebates) in the door posts)
    I ask this as a way to be able to give you a solution to your problem, not just for information on my part!...pinenot:)
     
  15. ozzierenovator

    ozzierenovator

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    Your assumptions are correct pinenot - the frame is 'out of wind'. The way we construct a door frame here in Australia is to place parallel studs on either side of the opening and a stud at the top. We then nail a jamb on top of the studs (to prevent the door from swinging through the opening) then we nail the architraves on the outsides to tidy up the job.

    The whole house seems to be 'out of wind'. If I described all of the problems I've found you wonder what on earth was wrong with the builder.

    Unfortunately because just about all of the walls throughout the house are 'out of wind' so are all my door frames making it impossible to hang a door within the frame without it jutting out at the top or bottom on the side opposite the hinges.

    What I was hoping for advice on is if the solution is to pack out one of my rebated hinges - which one(s) do I pack. Do I pack out the top hinge if the door juts out at the bottom and vice versa. Or do I pack out the hinge on the door? If there is some other easy way of fixing the problem I'd love to hear about it.
     
  16. big-all

    big-all

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    i have explained it to you badly as it seems lol
    if the door kicks out lock bottom by 9mm away from the stop push the diagonally opposite corner away from the door stop 2mm
    the 2mm will pull 9mm in about 2.5mm to 6.5mm
    you then go to the bottom hinge and move it towards the stop 2mm

    [this will require you to remove and refit the stop]

    the finished result is every corner is 2mm out rather than 2 at 4mm or one at 9mm

    you will have to move the stop in on the lock top side and possibly move the lock keep a fraction to allow the door to even out

    you move the hinge a tiny fraction less as the hinge isnt at the corner so the corner will move a fraction more than the hinge
     
  17. gregers

    gregers

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    cut your loses,remove archs and with a sabre saw cut the frame from the studs,and then refix correctly.this way you wont always be looking at a job you are not happy with.
     
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