Downlighters / Extractor Fan

[DazJWood]

I am currently redoing my bathroom and want to install downlighters and am also considering an extractor fan.

I like the idea of being able to dim the downlighters and have seen that you can by a bathroom pull cord with dimmer ability built in (from Screwfix / Toolstation). The highest rated one supplies a maximum of 250 watts. I presume you can probably get ones that go higher.

I am also thinking that an extractor fan would be ideal as even though the bathroom has windows I would like to be able to extract the moisture (and smells) without opening a window. I would prefer though to have the extractor operating independantly to the lights.

My thinking was to have a dimmer pull cord in the bathroom to operate the downlighters and a seperate switch on the outside of the bathroom to operate the fan.

I have a number of questions that I would appreciate some advice on:

1). Is it best to buy low voltage (12volt) downlighters as opposed to mains downlighters for a bathroom? (My intention is to have them on an RCD anyway). If so any recommendations?

2). If I bought the dimmer pull cord it is only rated for 250 watts maximum. I was hoping to install 6 downlighters at 50 watts each but wouldn't be able to with this dimmer. Is that overkill for a 2.5m by 1.6m bathroom or should I buy 6 and putt lower wattage lamps in them?

3). What is the best way to wire up multiple downlights to a pull cord? I have looked through the stickys at the top but couldn't see one specifically geared towards downlighters. Though I probably being blind.

4). Some extractor fans come with a light. Are these wired to operate independantly or do you have to have fan and light on together?

I'd appreciate any recommendations and advice.

Thanks in advance,

Daz

PS. I understand that I cannot do the majority of this work as it needs to be done by a professional, but I want to understand my options and have the knowledge behind it all.

 

[Steve]

I am currently redoing my bathroom and want to install downlighters and am also considering an extractor fan.

I like the idea of being able to dim the downlighters and have seen that you can by a bathroom pull cord with dimmer ability built in (from Screwfix / Toolstation). The highest rated one supplies a maximum of 250 watts. I presume you can probably get ones that go higher.

Not sure, its a niche.

I am also thinking that an extractor fan would be ideal as even though the bathroom has windows I would like to be able to extract the moisture (and smells) without opening a window. I would prefer though to have the extractor operating independantly to the lights.

My thinking was to have a dimmer pull cord in the bathroom to operate the downlighters and a seperate switch on the outside of the bathroom to operate the fan.

Dont. It wont get used, because the people using the room will complain its too loud.

1). Is it best to buy low voltage (12volt) downlighters as opposed to mains downlighters for a bathroom? (My intention is to have them on an RCD anyway). If so any recommendations?

They will need to be on an RCD regardless, under the 17th edition. Low voltage has more to go wrong, and some arent compatible with dimmers. Mains voltage is a whole lot easier to deal with, and you could fit low energy lamps (which will save far more energy than dimming wasteful halogen forehead-boilers)

2). If I bought the dimmer pull cord it is only rated for 250 watts maximum. I was hoping to install 6 downlighters at 50 watts each but wouldn't be able to with this dimmer. Is that overkill for a 2.5m by 1.6m bathroom or should I buy 6 and putt lower wattage lamps in them?

Please explain, why do you need 300 watts of lighting in your bathroom? My whole back garden has that much lighting. My bathroom has 27 watts of lighting.

3). What is the best way to wire up multiple downlights to a pull cord? I have looked through the stickys at the top but couldn't see one specifically geared towards downlighters. Though I probably being blind.

daisychain them. wire to one, then the next. You'll need a junction box next to each one, they dont normally accept two cables.

4). Some extractor fans come with a light. Are these wired to operate independantly or do you have to have fan and light on together?

without modifying them they operate together.

PS. I understand that I cannot do the majority of this work as it needs to be done by a professional, but I want to understand my options and have the knowledge behind it all.

Read here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part p You CAN do it yourself, if you pay LABC.

 

[sparkwright]

12 v lighting is brighter, though more likely to go wrong.

6 spotlights is a lot for a bathroom. Consider three, four or even five (perhaps arranged like on a dice).

If there is a loft space it is best to use a junction box to accomodate the feed cables, the switch cable and a cable which will go to feed each light in turn.

The switch for the fan should be (in this case) double pole.
A timer fan can be linked out easily to work independently of the light.
Or simply buy a manual fan.
Or buy a wall-mounted fan with built in pull cord (with a double pole switch somewhere).
Consider a 12 v fan.
Consider an in-line fan.

Also consider mirror lighting and shaver point.

 

[DazJWood]

I am currently redoing my bathroom and want to install downlighters and am also considering an extractor fan.

I like the idea of being able to dim the downlighters and have seen that you can by a bathroom pull cord with dimmer ability built in (from Screwfix / Toolstation). The highest rated one supplies a maximum of 250 watts. I presume you can probably get ones that go higher.

Not sure, its a niche.

Why is it a niche? I've read numerous posts on ambient lighting and dimming downlights in a bathroom, just not much on the best way to do it.

I am also thinking that an extractor fan would be ideal as even though the bathroom has windows I would like to be able to extract the moisture (and smells) without opening a window. I would prefer though to have the extractor operating independantly to the lights.

My thinking was to have a dimmer pull cord in the bathroom to operate the downlighters and a seperate switch on the outside of the bathroom to operate the fan.

Dont. It wont get used, because the people using the room will complain its too loud.

The people will be me so it will get used.

1). Is it best to buy low voltage (12volt) downlighters as opposed to mains downlighters for a bathroom? (My intention is to have them on an RCD anyway). If so any recommendations?

They will need to be on an RCD regardless, under the 17th edition. Low voltage has more to go wrong, and some arent compatible with dimmers. Mains voltage is a whole lot easier to deal with, and you could fit low energy lamps (which will save far more energy than dimming wasteful halogen forehead-boilers).

Thanks. I think mains does seem the way to go.

2). If I bought the dimmer pull cord it is only rated for 250 watts maximum. I was hoping to install 6 downlighters at 50 watts each but wouldn't be able to with this dimmer. Is that overkill for a 2.5m by 1.6m bathroom or should I buy 6 and putt lower wattage lamps in them?

Please explain, why do you need 300 watts of lighting in your bathroom? My whole back garden has that much lighting. My bathroom has 27 watts of lighting.

As described I was asking for advice. I wasn't saying that I did need 300 watts of lighting. It sounds as though you have low energy bulbs in your bathroom if you have 27 watts. Although you can now get some dimmerable low energy bulbs, it all depends on what effect you want. Low energy bulbs produce a different spectrum of light and also have a warm up time.

3). What is the best way to wire up multiple downlights to a pull cord? I have looked through the stickys at the top but couldn't see one specifically geared towards downlighters. Though I probably being blind.

daisychain them. wire to one, then the next. You'll need a junction box next to each one, they dont normally accept two cables.

Thanks.

4). Some extractor fans come with a light. Are these wired to operate independantly or do you have to have fan and light on together?

without modifying them they operate together.

Thanks.

PS. I understand that I cannot do the majority of this work as it needs to be done by a professional, but I want to understand my options and have the knowledge behind it all.

Read here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part p You CAN do it yourself, if you pay LABC.

Thanks.

 

[DazJWood]

12 v lighting is brighter, though more likely to go wrong.

6 spotlights is a lot for a bathroom. Consider three, four or even five (perhaps arranged like on a dice).

If there is a loft space it is best to use a junction box to accomodate the feed cables, the switch cable and a cable which will go to feed each light in turn.

The switch for the fan should be (in this case) double pole.
A timer fan can be linked out easily to work independently of the light.
Or simply buy a manual fan.
Or buy a wall-mounted fan with built in pull cord (with a double pole switch somewhere).
Consider a 12 v fan.
Consider an in-line fan.

Also consider mirror lighting and shaver point.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll look at four downlighters.
Can the double pole isolation switch be used as the main switch for the fan? What's the advantage of using a 12v fan over a 240v?

I will also be installing a shaver socket and want mirror lighting though my wall space is a bit limited near where the basin will be located. I'll look for something more ideal when I near completion.

Cheers,

Daz

 

[electronicsuk]

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll look at four downlighters.
Can the double pole isolation switch be used as the main switch for the fan?

A DP isolation switch can be used depending on how you wire it. Generally, timer fans are fed via a three pole isolator to control neutral, live and switched live for the timer component. To use a DP isolator with a timer fan instead of a 3P, the isolator would need to be fitted BEFORE the light switch for the room, such that it will still isolate the switched live supply from the lighting. This has the disadvantage that you will lose the lights as well as the fan by turning the DP isolator off.

If you were to fit a DP light switch, one pole could be used for controlling the lighting and the other for simultaneously switching the timer supply for the fan. The lights could still be used while the fan is isolated. However, this is generally only the done thing when the manufacturer's instructions call for a switched fused 3A supply, rather than feeding directly from the lighting circuit through a 3P isolator, which may be fused at 6A or more at the CU.

If you plan on fitting a dimmer and using the same switch to control a timer fan, you may find that it either wont control the fan properly, or may even damage either the dimmer or the fan itself.

What's the advantage of using a 12v fan over a 240v?

An increased level of safety and shock protection. For example, zone 1 directly above a shower requires electrical fittings such as lights and fan to be a minimum of IPx4 rated and RCD protected. However, if there is a risk that the fan could be accidentally jetted or come into contact with a person in the shower, it would be sensible to install a SELV fan.