downlighters

[ElectricDunc]

Just my 2p worth based on my kitchen. The kitchen is 3.5m x 4.5m and has 6x ELV 50W recessed lights installed. They are on a dimmer so we don't get blinded in the morning but can crank them right up for washing up and cooking. Installed 500mm in from the walls it gives light straight down on to the worktops with no shadows as you are never working in your own light. We have had them in for nearly 4 years now and have never changed a transformer or lamp. The soft start facility on the transformers prolongs the lamp life hugely by putting less stress on the element by warming it up gradually at switch on rather then banging it straight on. There are low energy versions available (Osram IRC 35W) which give the same output as a standard 50W lamp and last longer as an added benefit. If you install adjustable fittings you can give yourself a little more flexibility as recessed lights have a very small beam angle which can be an issue if you can't get them exactly where you want them. I know some manufacturers now produce lamps with 60 degree beam angles which helps reduce the dark patches.

In summary, install fittings 500mm in off walls with worktops. Use adjustable fittings. Definitely use a dimmer (use a trailing edge dimmer as well if your worried about noise from the dimmer when dimmed) as this helps with the lamp life and early morning bleary eyes. Try to keep a maximum distance of 1.5m between fittings to avoid shadows. Finally buy decent quality transformers and lamps, it will definitely pay in the long run.

This is my personal experience here so you can't tell me i'm wrong. We used to have a fluorescent fitting in the centre of the kitchen which produced horrific shadows as the lights was behind you whilst using the worktop areas. Also the electricity bill isn't too bad either but in your case IRC lamps will make a huge difference (150W less consumption) so try them out from the off.

 

[stunlawless]

Adding my 2p worth of personal experience...

I've got 8 40w r50 (230V) downlights in the kitchen, plus some little lights in the cooker hood (they came with it, I think they're GU10's)

The light distribution is fine (it's 4.5 x 4.5m), but I did experiment by hanging them off the old ceiling with cable ties before I decided how many and where to put them. Three over the worktop, two downwashing the wall cupboards (different wall to the work top), two over the table in the middle, and one over the sofa in the corner.

For "mood enhancing", I put the two over the table on a separate switch, so we can have romantic meals together. For cooking, all are on and there's no shadows.

BUT...the frequency of replacing the lamps (even with 5000h rated ones) drove me up the wall, so I replaced them with megaman 11w cfl. These drive me up the wall because they take 0.5 s to strike off, and then a couple of minutes to achieve full brightness, so I've replaced a couple with incadescant lamps. This strikes a happy medium !

Had I thougt seriously about energy consumption, then I wouldn't have considered downlights, hey ho, hindsight is perfect.

Next time I'll think about LED's - they seem to be getting better according to various posts on this site.

 

[ElectricDunc]

stunlawless the biggest mistake you made was even looking at the R50 lamps. All those style of mirror backed mains voltage halogens are a pile of the proverbial unfortunately.

 

[stunlawless]

@ Electricdunc: The original R50's weren't halogens, just ordinary incandescants (never liked halogens except in headlamps because all that heat seemed a waste to me).

However I take the general point about downlights, just don't twist the knife when you stick it in...

Edited to correct carp typing

 

[ElectricDunc]

Sorry mate, wasn't wielding a knife at the time of making my comment so please don't take it the wrong way. I hope for your sake they bring out a nice LED retrofit soon with a decent output to save you from the R50 incandescents. You can sometimes fit a standard ES energy saver in some of those R50's. A Sylvania Lynx Fast Start might be the answer to your problems if it will fit as they come up to 80% of full brightness at startup.

 

[xdave]

To add to this discussion:

I have a four lamp 240V GU10 spotlight in my living room that provides secondary lighting (main lighting is via wall lamps with CFL's). I was unhappy with having 4x50W bulbs, despite not having had any failures in about four years since fitting, so a few weeks ago I bought some different low energy replacements to try out and test if any were suitable. Each of the four spotlights is targetted to a different corner of the room, so it is quite easy to judge which has the better light output, which causes glare, etc.

I have three low energy bulbs and one of the original 50W halogen ones:

Generic 50W halogen
+ve: very bright light, £2 each
-ve: yellow light makes it hard to read in, glares, very hot and inefficient

Deltech Triple High Power GU10 LED 5W
+ve: nice white light (but not clinical)
-ve: low spread, seems much dimmer than the 40W equivalent suggested, glares, £25 each!

Megaman Energy Saving GU10 11W
+ve: warm fluorescent white, spread on par with the halogen, no glare, £9 each
-ve: seems much dimmer than the 55W equivalent suggested

Megaman Energy Saving GU10 9W
+ve: as above, £8 each
-ve: as above

I would love to go with the 5W bulbs entirely so the lot would only be 20W total, but the low spread and the dimness, plus the glare (which is worse than halogens), coupled with the £100 price tag for replacement makes the only positive - the better light colour of the four - an expensive flop. I was really hoping they would have perfected LED lamps by now but it seems the light is still unsuitable for anything other than torches.

I will probably end up with the 11W Megaman fluorescents because the spread is no worse than the halogens and they eliminate the glare which makes them much more comfortable to be around. Dimmable versions are available, alough given how dim they are normally I'm not sure why anyone would want them. I will give it another week or so to compare them then probably try two more in place of the halogen and the LED and see if I can cope with the dimness.

 

[stunlawless]

Electricdunc: no offence taken..

Decent LED's can't come too soon for me !

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The kitchen is 3.5m x 4.5m and has 6x ELV 50W recessed lights installed.

300W of lighting in a room that size.

If instead you had 3 x 100W or 5 x 60W GLS pendants, or 5 x 5' fluorescent strips, how bright would it be?

If the answer is "brighter" then that shows why you should not have small recessed downlights - they are not an efficient form of lighting.