Economy 7 clock wrong

[JohnW2]

In the distant past, we had two meters - the usual black peak one, plus a white off-peak one. From memory, the entire supply, was either connected to one meter, or the other - so it was down to us, to have our own system(s) to switch on/off at the correct times.

Indeed - but that was largely superseded when 'dual tariff'; meters came along, in which there was time-related switching between the two registers.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't think anyone has any disagreement with that

Glad you agree.

Which surely has to be wrong. If has been mooted one of those actions changes by an hour but not the other (I hope I understood that correctly) then they could be paying for all of their hot water heating in that first 1½ hours of 'off peak time' at peak rate.

Don't 'shoot the messenger'. I have merely been reporting what appears to be the situation!

Having said that, there may be a problem in doing anything different if (as is essential to the grid) one is to avoid exactly simultaneous switching of potentially millions of loads. IF (by edict either of themselves, the manufacturers of 'smart meters' or Ofgem) I am right in saying that the registers of a 'smart' meter are constrained to have 'round' 30-minute periods (starting from 00:00 every day, then I can't think of any way of implementing the required staggering of load switching without getting load-switching and billing a bit out-of-synch - can you?

 

[SUNRAY]

Glad you agree.

Don't 'shoot the messenger'. I have merely been reporting what appears to be the situation!

Having said that, there may be a problem in doing anything different if (as is essential to the grid) one is to avoid exactly simultaneous switching of potentially millions of loads. IF (by edict either of themselves, the manufacturers of 'smart meters' or Ofgem) I am right in saying that the registers of a 'smart' meter are constrained to have 'round' 30-minute periods (starting from 00:00 every day, then I can't think of any way of implementing the required staggering of load switching without getting load-switching and billing a bit out-of-synch - can you?

Yes. Add a random delay from 1 to 30 minutes into every meter, didn't someone already suggest that?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes. Add a random delay from 1 to 30 minutes into every meter, didn't someone already suggest that?

Me?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes. Add a random delay from 1 to 30 minutes into every meter, didn't someone already suggest that?

As has been said repeatedly, that is, in common sense terms, the obvious 'solution'.

However, to keep billing correct, exactly the same random alteration would have to be made to both the register-switching times and 'load-switching' times - which, as I said, would not be possible if (as I believe may well be the case) the 30-minutely TOU registers in a 'smart' meter have to start their timings at 00:00

 

[ericmark]

I set my devices to turn on late rather than early, if I look at my own use at midnight battery discharged, so there is some grid usage, but I don't start the charge of the batteries until 1:30 am, as I know they will be fully charged by 3:30 am, so since I have off-peak until 5:30 am I have 2 hours leeway.

Now with storage radiators they likely take longer,

 

[ericmark]

I set my devices to turn on late rather than early, if I look at my own use View attachment 405275 at midnight battery discharged, so there is some grid usage, but I don't start the charge of the batteries until 1:30 am, as I know they will be fully charged by 3:30 am, so since I have off-peak until 5:30 am I have 2 hours leeway.

Now with storage radiators they likely take longer, but like with my batteries this shows View attachment 405276 that only 5 hours are required, and they have 7, so no harm in starting the charging of the storage heat battery late, it seems however looking at around 1.35 kWh per day, so peak - off-peak in my case is 31.94-8.50 = 23.44p/kWh extra x 1.35 = 31.644p and a timer able to handle 3 kW costs around £10, so 32 days to pay for its self.

However, need to work out totals first, not sure a single storage heater pays for its self to start with? For every month I get one of these so average 13.616p/kWh so that for me is far lower than the 26.91p/kWh standard rate. For me, the difference is so massive, no real need to do all months, I can easily see the split tariff is better for me.

But with storage heaters, in summer Economy 7 will not save anything. In fact, it will likely cost more, so before spending out on timers, need to be sure it is going to pay. With my heating, I select when I want to heat, and to only heat as and when required.

 

[SUNRAY]

In the distant past, we had two meters - the usual black peak one, plus a white off-peak one. From memory, the entire supply, was either connected to one meter, or the other - so it was down to us, to have our own system(s) to switch on/off at the correct times.

Erm are you sure about that?
One of my flats had 2 meters when I purchased. At the change of ownership it was decided to change the twin meters. A fitter came out and stated he was not permitted to make the alterations at the 2 CU's (actually both ends of a single CU) as the 4 tails plus earth went through the wall then in trunking. I received a letter stating I had to do some rewiring at the same time as the meter change and included a drawing in advance for the attention of my electrician and they would supply the connector on the day.
On the day the fitter handed over a used Henley and said he had not seen a white meter for a long time.
This was a bit over 20 years ago. I'd been in the meter box to read the 2 meters and AFAIC it was wired as BEFORE with the black and white meters & cutout. I had no form of switching in the house

Why it couldn't have been done like this I don't know

as there was plenty of space in the meter box. and ruddy awkward to fit the Henley by the CU.

As it happens, when I changed letting agents later; one of their requirements was a single main switch which I was able to reconfigure without too much effort which I wouldn't have been able to do as easily.