EICR Details please

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Hi guys,

My Landlord has just had my (his) property tested.
The electrician said that all the sockets, all the stitches etc have to be checked, and took several days to carry it out !

I have just witnessed a similar property getting tested, which they didn't check all sockets, switches etc, so I asked about it.

He reckoned that not all of them have to be checked, but that some over zealous types might do so, for a series of reasons.

Which is true please ?

Hope everyone is keeping ok since my last visit here.
 
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Properties need to be safe.
If an electrical installation was properly installed to begin with, and the documents relating to it were properly completed and retained, and it has been inspected and tested at intervals since then, and all alterations, repairs and additions were also properly documented over the years, and the usage of the installation was in keeping with what it was designed for, and there is nothing to suggest it has been misused or damaged, then there may be a case for only testing or inspecting some parts of it at subsequent dates.

However if it's like the majority of domestic installs, it has never been inspected or tested including when it was first installed, and therefore inspecting and testing all of it is the only method to establish it's condition.
 
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I have not read the new law in Wales yet, come in December, but the English one says all the installation and non portable equipment needs testing except for the DNO head, however the IET guidance has always separated current using equipment (except lights) from the installation, so although both need testing, they are often not done at the same time, or even by the same person, the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment often called PAT testing, training and exam was far less involved to the C&G 2391 taken before doing the EICR. In fact often done by semi-skilled guys.

The Emma Shaw case made it very clear semi-skilled should not do inspection and testing of the installation. But although case law seems to show one needs to be skilled, the English law says
“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;
nothing about how much experience or what qualifications need to be held.

Following that definition in spite having my C&G 2391 and trained to level 5 (degree standard) because of my injury, I can't guarantee to be able to do the remedial work, so suppose I should not do the testing and inspecting?

But @flameport is spot on, in industrial premises where the EICR is done regular, doing a sample is the normal way, but as to how much is inspected is up to the client, for example the LABC may ask an inspector to look at an extension, and also instruct any breach of current regulations is high lighted, but the IET changed the coding removing code 4 which was does not comply with current regulations as being unhelpful.

The code C1 says it is dangerous, which is reasonable straight forward, but code C2 says potentially dangerous and all 230 volt is potentially dangerous, and C3 is improvement recommended. And it is up to the inspector to decide if any item not complying with current regulations is C2, C3 or not worth reporting. It is a professional opinion, there is no hard and fast rule.

Same goes for code FI or LIM, in real terms they mean the same, but FI is a fail, and LIM is not, but mean some thing not tested, call it further investigation required, or the investigation did not cover that item, really it means the same.

So there is nothing to stop me telling the guy inspecting my house, only do the socket circuits. It would not satisfy the new English law, but unless I tell the inspector I want it doing to satisfy the landlord law, then he is doing nothing wrong, it is not like an MOT where the government sets the standard, it is a wishy washy inspection which has no real rules as to how much or how little is inspected.

The has been court cases, trading standards Pembrokeshire took one guy to court, but remember that is in Wales, so not to do with the English law. Also the guy admitted he did not do a thorough inspection, but the result has been inspectors are considering if there by grace of god go I, so more attention is being taken.

@flameport comments are very true, this house I found a borrowed neutral on the lighting circuit likely existing from when the house was built, and only found when individual RCD's added to all circuits (RCBO) which tripped due to the error.

My daughter rented a house, and there was a problem, and I fixed it, but it was on the QT, so no paperwork raised, this is why IET says EICR should be done on change of occupant, one has no idea what some tenant before one has done, this is very different with industrial premises, I know a minor works certificate needs raising for any work done.

When doing my exam, I had a board to test, so no walking, just a sample of items found in a house, had I seem to remember an hour, and I felt not enough time, so yes can see at that standard it would take a couple of days, however in the main if some thing fails, you stop, if work needs doing, it will need retesting after, so if taken that long, likely most items have passed.
 
Sampling is the norm. Excessive dismantling is potentially as likely to introduce faults as find them. That said, this should always be agreed with the person ordering the work (in this instance likely the landlord or letting agent).
 
Sampling is the norm. Excessive dismantling is potentially as likely to introduce faults as find them. That said, this should always be agreed with the person ordering the work (in this instance likely the landlord or letting agent).
In general, I would agree with you. However, in relation to rented accommodation, the 'most interested party' would appear to be the LA, in which case one might expect that the legislation would be fairly prescriptive in terms of the required scope/extent of an inspection - but it appears that it isn't :)
 
In general, I would agree with you. However, in relation to rented accommodation, the 'most interested party' would appear to be the LA, in which case one might expect that the legislation would be fairly prescriptive in terms of the required scope/extent of an inspection - but it appears that it isn't :)
I'm not suggesting that all circuits shouldn't be examined for a domestic installation - that's entirely reasonable for such a small installation. But checking "every socket and switch" is wholly unreasonable and indeed probably undesirable.
 
I'm not suggesting that all circuits shouldn't be examined for a domestic installation - that's entirely reasonable for such a small installation. But checking "every socket and switch" is wholly unreasonable and indeed probably undesirable.
Again, I totally agree with all that - but, as I said, since the primary 'interested party' in relation to rental property is 'officialdom' (in the guise of the LA), I remain rather surprised that the legislation does not have anything to say about the (minimum acceptable)_ scope/extent of the inspection. Let's face it, a landlord could theoretically agree with an inspector a very 'minimal scope', which I imagine most of us would not feel was 'adequate'
 
Again, I totally agree with all that - but, as I said, since the primary 'interested party' in relation to rental property is 'officialdom' (in the guise of the LA), I remain rather surprised that the legislation does not have anything to say about the (minimum acceptable)_ scope/extent of the inspection. Let's face it, a landlord could theoretically agree with an inspector a very 'minimal scope', which I imagine most of us would not feel was 'adequate'
I certainly don't disagree that it would be prudent to establish (probably by way of official guidance) an expected minimum desirable extent and limitations for these inspections to prevent skulduggery.
 
What is this "new law in Wales" ?

Kind Regards, John
I wish I knew more about it myself, this explains some of the changes but it is rather vague, I tried to wade through the "Renting Home (Wales) (Amendment) act 2021" but could find not reference to EICR and what it covers. It talks about being fit for habitation, but not exactly what this means, does seem they want smoke alarms and other things, and the time periods have been extended for eviction. Also some in favour of landlord, mainly right of access, clearly a landlord can't have an EICR done if he can't get into the property.

However it all seems a little wishy washy, tenants not longer called tenants, but need to inform landlord is property is to be left empty for more than a month, but some bits in the original and some in the amendment, many landlords are saying enough is enough, and are getting out, so loads of homes now on the market, and loads of requests on social media for info about homes to rent, many being forced to live in caravans as being evicted before the new law comes in.

It has not been helped by Colvid, with people not being able to work in tourism, and rents not paid, and landlords ending up paying out more than they are getting in, the buy to rent mortgage has not helped either, it seems so silly to pay more to rent a home than it costs to buy the home, unless short term, but landlords are realising there are other investments giving better returns, and also people are working from home more, so can live in the country rather than in towns, so there is a market for the ex-rental homes, so we are seeing a lot of ex-landlords.

Also the rates are not helping, when they want to charge silly figures when they see it as a second home, seems the Labour government has good ideas, but does not think them through, we get so much money from tourism, then seem to want to reduce it.
 
I wish I knew more about it myself, this explains some of the changes but it is rather vague, I tried to wade through the "Renting Home (Wales) (Amendment) act 2021" but could find not reference to EICR and what it covers. It talks about being fit for habitation, but not exactly what this means, does seem they want smoke alarms and other thing ....
It is a bit of a mission! I haven't studied the Act itself, but ther are several guidance documents which explaining what "Fit for Human Habitation" means and, in particular, what is required in terms of electrical testing to achieve it. For example, the guidance document (here) includes:

Inspection and testing of electrical installation

Although fires in the home are reducing overall, the proportion of domestic fires caused by electricity is steadily increasing.

Anything receiving constant use will deteriorate over time and an electrical installation is no different. The electrical installation within rented accommodation is likely to be subject to greater levels of deterioration because of the changes of occupancy. It should therefore be inspected and tested regularly to ensure it is safe for continued use. This test is known as ‘periodic inspection and testing’ (PIT).

PIT is carried out on wiring and fixed electrical equipment to check that they are safe, the test will:
  • reveal if any of your electrical circuits or equipment is overloaded
  • find any potential electric shock risks and fire hazards
  • identify any defective electrical work
  • highlight any lack of earthing or bonding
Periodic inspection and testing must be carried out only by a qualified person, such as a registered electrician. The electrician must be competent to carry out a PIT in accordance with the UK standard for the safety of electrical installations, BS 7671 – Requirements for Electrical Installations (IET Wiring Regulations). Further information on finding a qualified electrician can be found at:
Once the PIT has been completed you will be issued with an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR). This report will inform you of any deterioration, defects, dangerous conditions and any non-compliance with the present-day safety standard that might give rise to danger. If no such issues are found the EICR will confirm the electrical installation is satisfactory for continued use.

A landlord is required to have the electrical installation of the dwelling tested every five years unless the requirements of the previous EICR indicate a shorter testing interval is required. Where a shorter interval is recommended the five year period will not apply and a future test must be undertaken at the recommended interval. Failure to do so will mean the dwelling is considered unfit for human habitation.

The current EICR must be made available to the contract-holder within seven days of the occupation date. Where a PIT is carried out after the occupation date the EICR must be provided to the contract-holder within seven days of the inspection date.

In addition, a landlord is also required to provide the contract-holder written confirmation of all investigatory and remedial work carried out on the electrical installation as a result of a PIT. This written confirmation must be provided to the contract-holder within seven days of the occupation date. Where investigatory and remedial work is carried out after the occupation date the written confirmation must be provided within seven days of the landlord receiving this confirmation.

A dwelling which is subject to an occupation contract which converted from an existing contract on the date of implementation will not be subject to the requirements of PIT for a period of twelve months from the date of conversion. This exemption will no longer apply to the dwelling should the converted contract end.

Kind Regards, John
 
... it seems so silly to pay more to rent a home than it costs to buy the home ...
Err, hang on a minute - can we compare apples with apples, not with peanuts :rolleyes:
Yeah, as one of our offspring point out, they'll pay less for a mortgage than they do in rent when they manage to buy a place. But the difference is that on top of paying the mortgage, they'll have to pay : buildings insurance, buildings repairs, replacement costs when roofs, windows, boilers, electrics, smoke alarms, whatever need replacing, etc., etc. Our other offspring currently needs a new boiler but doesn't have the cash to do it and I don't currently have it to hand - had she still been renting then the landlord would have been responsible for that.
 
It seems I may have fallen into a PIT, periodic inspection and testing. As with the English version it seems to suggest non portable equipment is included in the PIT, but the IET seems only to include lighting as current using equipment tested in an EICR.

This is why I was looking for actual law, but could not find it.
 

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