EICR Details please

No it has been always been permissible to do emergency work without informing LABC first.
Although that obviously makes sense, where do the rules/regs/laws actually say that? If I 'smashed up' one of my CUs, could I then replace it without having to 'notify' the work?
No not started yet, does not come in until 1st December.
Plugwash was talking about England - where, as he said, most/all rented properties should have had their first 'landlord EICR' by now.
The problem is can't actually see where it says must be done in any law, the guides to the law says it must be done, but enter EICR or PIT in the "Find in page" and every page reports not on the page, the likely applies equally in England and Wales, so as with English regulations it includes current using equipment like immersion heater, boiler, cooker, and dishwasher, washing machine, and drier if not on wheels. I can't remember the weight at which without wheels not classed as portable think 18 kg, and a tumble drier is over that.
I don't know why you keep saying this because it clearly was not the intent of the legislators (at least, for England), The official guidance document for landlords in relation to the legislation (in England) says

What about electrical appliances like cookers, fridges, televisions etc?​

The Regulations do not cover electrical appliances, only the fixed electrical installations. We recommend that landlords regularly carry out portable appliance testing (PAT) on any electrical appliance that they provide and then supply tenants with a record of any electrical inspections carried out as good practice. Tenants are responsible for making sure that any of their own electrical appliances are safe.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Do it a lot sorry.

I don't know how, but I often fall asleep browsing stuff and end up either posting rubbish or some other stuff.
 
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What about electrical appliances like cookers, fridges, televisions etc?
The Regulations do not cover electrical appliances, only the fixed electrical installations. We recommend that landlords regularly carry out portable appliance testing (PAT) on any electrical appliance that they provide and then supply tenants with a record of any electrical inspections carried out as good practice. Tenants are responsible for making sure that any of their own electrical appliances are safe.
The guide may say that, but the law says
The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 said:
“electrical installation” has the meaning given in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010(2);
BUILDING AND BUILDINGS said:
“electrical installation” means fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter;
One would assume fixed means anything not classed as portable? However Part P says you must notify any new circuit, and a protective device forms a circuit, but seems you don't need to notify for a FCU.

With fridges, televisions etc? OK can see not part of the “electrical installation” but cookers, boilers, immersion heaters etc, I would have thought fall into “electrical installation” as defined in the act.
BS 7671 said:
Electrical installation (abbr: installation). An assembly of associated electrical equipment having co-ordinated
characteristics to fulfil Specific purposes.

Yes we tend to consider the installation does not cover current using equipment with the exception of the lights, current using equipment with the exception of lights is tested as part of the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment, however there has always been a problem with items which don't plug in, all must be checked, but a guy walking around with a PAT testing machine is not going to be able to test hand driers, cookers, immersion heaters, boilers and any other equipment without a plug without carrying around with him a whole load of tools to let him get access to the parts requiring testing.

So in many organisations I have worked for, it has been laid down that items without plugs are tested with the installation, however a pass/fail is still on the same basis as if tested at same time as rest of the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment, so although done with the EICR a PAT testing form is filled in.

But there are no hard and fast rules as to when fixed equipment is tested, only it must be tested, this 1658394574844.png is from Plumbing and Central Heating section, lack of any cable retention clips or clamps, means it clearly does not comply, and could be classed as a code C2, it would be easy to pull cables out, in fact that was whole reason for post
the wire got tugged and pulled all the connectors out
no excuse not being gas safe, it was an oil combi boiler, and it seems not a DIY install "The fitter wired it all up with this Danfoss RX1 which we had already." so to do an EICR one would need to look at thermostats, programmers, and boilers.
 
The guide may say that, but the law says

There is also another definition in the Building regs, separate from "electrical installation". The definitions for it and building services are different.

“fixed building services” means any part of, or any controls associated with

(a)
fixed internal or external lighting systems, but does not include emergency escape lighting or specialist process lighting; or
(b)
fixed systems for heating, hot water, air conditioning or mechanical ventilation;"
 
Since the law which defines “electrical installation” is not the same law which uses the phrase, seems possible some one did not realise the problem when writing the guide.
 
seems possible some one did not realise the problem when writing the guide.
Or they just didn't intend "fixed building services" to be part of the landlord EICR checks.
 
The guide may say that, but the law says ......
I believe that you are over-thinking and over-complicating this, perhaps at the cost of common sense, by attempting to emulate Perry Mason and critically examine imperfections ('lack of thinking through') in the wording of legislation.

I presume that it will never be tested in a Court but, if it were, I would imagine that the Court would take the view that the government-issued guidance in relation to the legislation represented the intended interpretation of that legislation.

Although the legislation itself does not mention "EICR", the guidance document makes it very clear that an EICR is what is required, and what is considered adequate/acceptable.

Your whole argument seems to centre around the meaning of 'fixed' equipment/appliances/loads ('current-consuming equipment') but I don't think that any electrician undertaking an EICR would dream of (or necessarily feel competent to) undertaking inspection and testing of boilers and cookers etc. Regardless of official definitions, I think there is a general ('common sense') understanding that an electrical installation consists only of the 'fixed wiring' etc. and (with, by convention, the one exception of light fittings etc.) not any connected 'current-using equipment' - regardless of the size/weight ('portability') of that equipment and regardless of whether or not it was 'hard-wired'.

Kind Regards, John
 
I have been surprised over the years with the results of court cases, you may be correct but I would not put money on it.
Well for a start, as I said, this question is never going to be tested in a Court.

In any event, although I agree that Court judgments are occasionally 'surprising' (maybe even 'bizarre') ,if one ignores jury trials (since jury verdicts can sometimes be very bizarre!), in the great majority of cases the Courts (i.e. Judges) seem to be remarkably sensible.

In this particular case, if it somehow not only got to Court but ended up with a judgment such as you have suggested, I suspect that the government would probably try to find some way of intervening (i.e. 'appealing'), since the Court will effectively have ruled that the guidance being published by the government is 'unlawful'.

Kind Regards, John
 

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