EICR - tester exceeding remit and the regs?

[JohnW2]

I got guidance from NICEIC themselves : ...

You say "from NICEIC themselves" but, since the 'electrician' was not a member of NICEIC, their view is pretty irrelevant. In general, they have a habit of making up rules of their own, nothing to do with the actual regulations - but, on this occasion, it's good to see that thay are saying the same as we have all been telling you.

How best to tackle this guy now? I think my liability is covered though (thanks for making me jump through such hoops after paying you £200) as he is clearly acting outside of the regs. If I forward him this it might get his back up and frankly I want nothing more to do with him. But I do want a pass. Absolutely ridiculous!

It is ridiculous.

One lesson learned is that it is advisable to have EICRs done by someone who is a member of one of the trade organisations (of which NICEIC is but one) - since, in ridiculous cases like yours, that organisation would probably be able to help to resolve the situation.

I can't really think of anything else particularly useful that you could realistically do. I suppose it's conceivable that Trading Standards might have an interest (particularly if they have had other complaints about the same person), but even that would probably be a tedious and potentially stressful process for you.

Kind Regards, John

 

[R Benny Waered]

Thanks John. Sound advice and lesson learnt about using non registered guys.

 

[R Benny Waered]

And the conclusion in two emails... How can they treat customers like this?

On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 12:27, you wrote:

That's great, thank you.

I'm happy my smoke sensors are compliant with Local Council and Fire Brigade as they are. But they do recommend a heat sensor like you do but it isn't an EICR fail. Its clear you value life and have seen bad things and I have no issues with a C3. But a C2 is an issue - especially as we will smash past that and exceed what is required anyway with a new whole building linked system.

Where do we go from here?

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On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 12:32, A F Knobhead wrote:

Hi ,

Sorry I can’t help . I ve done my job so I would advise finding another Electrician that is able to help you.
On a separate note because of stamp duty drop it’s a great time to sell

Best regards

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I cant let him get away with this. He never even provided a quote to fix anything in over a month - way past the 28 day limit for C2 fails. Just likes chucking landlords in it I suspect.

I would like to return the grief for this unprofessional behaviour. Thankfully I have till March next year to address this but what if i didn't? I guess there is no obligation to follow through and fix the issues/make safe but he wasted a month in not helping resolve this by not giving a quote and talking general cock and bull if he is allowed to work on it at all because its Turkish!!! WTF?.

Is there any mileage in going to trading standards or anyone that licences him?

Thanks

Thanks

 

[JohnW2]

Is there any mileage in going to trading standards or anyone that licences him?

You continue to have my sympathies.

He won't be 'licensed' and, given that he is apparently not a member of a trade organisation (which he is not obliged to me) you haven't got that route to pursue.

However, there is absolutely nothing to be lost by having a word with Trading Standards - so, if I were in your position, I think that's probably what I would do. As I think I said before, they might just be 'interested', particularly if they have had other complaints about the same guy - but, even if not, they might have suggestions as to other approaches you could try. The only other thing I can think off (short of spending money on a lawyer) would be the CAB - but I suspect they might just refer you to Trading Standards.

Good luck, and I hope hat you manage to achieve something.

Kind Regards, John

 

[R Benny Waered]

It gets better. I offered him one last chance to compete the job to regs professionaly as I was fully up to speed with regs now and had had them corroborated in writing by a trade body and got this via txt:

I don't make mistakes
Please forward the NICEIC letter to me and will go from there .
If I need to correct NICEiC opinion then I will !!

I've told him I've covered my back and have and will say nothing further on solicitors advice.

 

[RF Lighting]

I think that really tells you everything you need to know about this chap.

Thanks John. Sound advice and lesson learnt about using non registered guys.

Not everyone who isn’t registered is bad at their job

 

[JohnW2]

Not everyone who isn’t registered is bad at their job

Of course, but that was not the point I made which brought about that comment.

The point is that (as in any walk of life) there are a few 'bad' non-registered electricians and and a few 'bad' registered ones - but if one employs the services of one of the latter, one at least has an additional route for trying to resolve issues regarding their 'badness'.

For what it's worth (and purely anecdotally), the person I came across who I would describe as "the worst electrician I have ever encountered" was 'registered' and, to underline your point, I've known (and know) a good few electricians who I regard as extremely competent and trustworthy who are not 'registered'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[rich8000uk]

I'm glad you didn't pay him for a rewire!
As a qualified and registered electrician, I would question if the guy has Any relevant quals.
As Duty Holder, the Landlord is ultimately responsible for the property and all works carried out. I don't believe an inspector has to be registered but he has to be a Qualified and Competent Person. The easiest way to know this is to use a registered person, I'm with NAPIT there are others. We have to have not just Liability cover but also Professional Indemnity, in date calibration for test instruments, complaints procedure etc.
I can't work as cheap as some non registered people, it costs me every year to be registered and up to date, but all my work is traceable and done to standard. And it's overseen by an awarding body. Would you want a mot on your daughter's car done by a bicycle mechanic?
Good guidance re the new rules by NAPIT Landlords and Electrical Inspectors, Guidance for the Private rented sector ISBN 978 9998546-6-9
I think it answers just about every question in this thread.
Regds Rich

 

[R Benny Waered]

Thanks Rich - might buy the book or just get someone half tidy and straight in to do it!!!

I have had some of the most bizarre conversations ever with this chap recently to still try and clear this up, but failed. I accept there can be grey areas in some interpretations but I think my nightmare is a political leaning issue he has with landlords... I have leant right back at him and said that if what he says is proven inaccurate in court he will be picking up the tab for rehoming tenants.

The future is to only book people like yourself who esearch, educate and follow the guidance whilst having proper trade affiliations. You aren't in Islington are you?

 

[securespark]

What if they bring in a regulation that CUs are not allowed in under-stairs cupboards?

Unlikely. There'd be a huge issue with DNO cutouts that are sited under there. Submains galore....

 

[EFLImpudence]

According to another thread, it would seem we are part way there regarding consumer units.

The DNOs will likely continue to do whatever they want.

 

[JohnW2]

According to another thread, it would seem we are part way there regarding consumer units.

I'm not sure what thread you are refering to - can you expand a little?

The DNOs will likely continue to do whatever they want.

Whatever they want within the constraints of whatever regs/legislation that have to work to (which I think is primarily ESQCR). However, if (as seems to be the case), the LFB have enough clout and 'bulling power' to be able to force 'non-combustible CUs' oto JPEL/64 (hence BS7671), I imagine they could, if they were so inclined, probably do (or try!!) the same as regards 'CUs under stairs' in relation to ESQCR (or whatever) - with which DNOs would then therefore presumably have to comply.

However, unlike mere domestic consumers, DNOs might well 'fight back' if the LFB tried that one!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'm not sure what thread you are refering to - can you expand a little?

The one where it has been decide that plastic CUs under stairs warrants a C2 - and therefore must be replaced.

 

[ericmark]

I'm not sure what thread you are refering to - can you expand a little?
Whatever they want within the constraints of whatever regs/legislation that have to work to (which I think is primarily ESQCR). However, if (as seems to be the case), the LFB have enough clout and 'bulling power' to be able to force 'non-combustible CUs' oto JPEL/64 (hence BS7671), I imagine they could, if they were so inclined, probably do (or try!!) the same as regards 'CUs under stairs' in relation to ESQCR (or whatever) - with which DNOs would then therefore presumably have to comply.

However, unlike mere domestic consumers, DNOs might well 'fight back' if the LFB tried that one!

Kind Regards, John

Considering the Grenfell Tower fire it seems they don't have enough clout, Ronan Point lessons were also slow to be learnt, but the IET/BSi can put anything they want in their book, it states in BS 7671 it is not law, it can be used in a court of law to show some one has not taken reasonable care, but it is not law so the writers do not need to comply with what anyone suggests, it is after all just a suggestion to others as to what should be included in an electrical design.

Even with Part P it says one way to comply would be to follow BS 7671 but one could follow any of the EU regs and it would still comply, so if you had a German firm you could wire up houses to German standards so their key personal could bring their stuff from home, this has been done with house for US forces.

So suppose the homes would need to be provided rather than rented to the occupants, but we all know it is the law which is wrong to try and use BS 7671 it is not BS 7671 which is wrong.

 

[JohnW2]

The one where it has been decide that plastic CUs under stairs warrants a C2 - and therefore must be replaced.

Ah - but that's just in the eyes of NICEIC, NAPIT or whichever trade organisation it was. As you and I have pointed out, the actual regulation makes absolutely no distinction between domestic CUs in different locations - they all are ('equally') required to be 'non-combustible', no matter where they are (including when they are not under the stairs).

Kind Regards, John