Electric vehicle charging point

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It's not really the refuelling system, but the vehicles - all that would be needed would be for the vehicle to be disabled when something was inserted into its filler pipe (very easy to implement), and vehicles are being 'designed from scratch' all the time.
That's quite true.


I took his point to be that if such measures are (rightly or wrongly) deemed unnecessary with liquid fuel, they would probably also be (again, rightly or wrongly) deemed unnecessary with charging systems. ... unless, that is, you know that it is much more likely that people will 'drive off whilst plugged in' than to drive off with a fuel nozzle still inserted in their vehicle.
I don't know, but I am as certain as I can be that it is more likely.

In a garage you have only a few minutes earlier inserted the nozzle, and have been standing there holding it all the time, either waiting for it to click off, or staring intently at the pump display so that you don't end up going 1p over the amount you wanted to spend. To then leave it in the car and drive off (assuming you were at a pay-at-the-pump facility) requires a rare and special kind of stupidity.

With an EV at home it will have been several hours since you plugged it in, and so it is much more likely that you'd have forgotten, the car will be in an environment which is utterly familiar and routine, and until you've had it for a while you'll be leaving the house and in auto-pilot mode be very likely to do what you've done thousands of times before, which is to get in and drive off.
 
Even my mothers electric wheel chair and mobility scooter will not drive while being charged in fact since with the wheel chair there is no key we leave it on charge so it can't be moved by children.

As to petrol pump the case I was involved with it was not left in the tank but was put back into the pumps nozzle holder leaving a loop which was hooked up but the bumper of the car other side of the pump. This was a Cougar so bumper is designed to allow push starting and with a 300 cu in engine and automatic gear box it was a large enough engine for the driver to be unaware of what had happened until the pump was at 30 degrees. The hose did not disconnect.

Clearly the same can happen with an electric charging point where the cable is attached to the charger it does not even need to be an electric car which causes the damage.

When looking at the amendment on electric vehicle charging it would seem an allowance has been made for charging outdoors at a single household dwelling where not using PME is not reasonably practicable.

I did at first look at the 70 volt max between earthing terminal and earth then realised 50 volt RMS = 70 volt peak but in some sections it not to exceed 70 volt and in others not exceed 70 volt RMS I wonder if this was an error?

The charging point for the van local to me has a cable reel so the charging socket is portable. How one defines portable and tethered I am not sure. Maybe it's classed as tethered but clearly it relies on the user to ensure it does not go less than 0.5 meters from the ground.

The vehicle charging point is on the front wing so unlike the petrol filler it would be hard to drive off without seeing it was connected.

It would seem mobility scooters are not covered together with any other unit drawing 10A or less. However the mobility scooter charges at over 10A and so does the wheel chair as the connection is extra low voltage I think 24 volt

I do look at this document and consider how it will relate to charging systems for milk floats and fork lifts. In the main charged in doors so not a problem but it would seem the writers have forgotten about the older vehicles Wikipedia does give some more information on the modes but the standard fork lift type plug
ITEM5_Forklift-Connector-Instruction.jpg
seems to be missing from all the write ups on electric vehicle charging as with the more modern systems these also had variations with colours and sizes stopping 24 volt and 48 volt systems from being interconnected.

I know we are talking about cars but one has to remember these are rather late on the electric vehicle list. Some like the Electrohaul trucks actually used pantograph connections to transfer retardation power into a grid to be used by other trucks coming out of the mine. Voltages were also rather higher.

Never worked on these trucks just stories from other auto electricians I worked with as an ex-pat.

I also remember the Bedford CF electric van which had two methods of charging one being a battery swap with special under vehicle battery pack. For 5 years 1981 to 1986 it seemed that the electric van was going to be the thing of the future. New batteries were being developed then Bedford axed many of its models due to losing money and the electric CF2 was one of them.

I have only ever seem one at the alternative technology centre it seems the idea was working even then but charging was controlled out of the vehicle. 216 volt DC motor was unusual most fork lifts are under 80 volt and I remember looking at the reports and how to safely work on the battery pack.
 
I wonder how long it will be before the first case of theft by someone using someone else's charging point arises?
 
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... unless, that is, you know that it is much more likely that people will 'drive off whilst plugged in' than to drive off with a fuel nozzle still inserted in their vehicle.
I don't know, but I am as certain as I can be that it is more likely.
You may be right (particularly, as you suggest, in the early days before people become familiar with the charging process) - albeit there is a difference between "more likely and "much more likely". In any event, it seems that others agree with you, since we seem to be being told that most/all EVs do have an interlock (which, given how easy it is to implement, would seem a strange thing to omit).

Kind Regards, John
 
I did at first look at the 70 volt max between earthing terminal and earth then realised 50 volt RMS = 70 volt peak but in some sections it not to exceed 70 volt and in others not exceed 70 volt RMS I wonder if this was an error?
I feel sure that they really do mean 70V RMS. I agree that this is stated explicitly only once in the Amendment [in 722.411.4.1(ii)] but, throughout BS7671, it is assumed (quite probably stated somewhere), that when an AC voltage is mentioned, it means RMS voltage. I am not aware of anywhere in BS7671 where there is a reference to a peak AC voltage. The IET article mentioned early explains where the 70V figure comes from....
The 70V touch voltage figure is taken from Table 2c (Ventricular fibrillation for alternating current 50/60Hz) of IEC 60479-5 (Ed. 1.0), Effects of current on human beings and livestock – Part 5: Touch voltage threshold values for physiological effects. This standard gives a value of 71V for both hands-to-feet, in water-wet conditions with medium contact area (12.2 cm2).
Although we are used to seeing 50V as the maximimum permitted touch voltage, it appears that 50V may be rather conservative in terms of IEC 60479-5.

Kind Regards, John
 
He is my father-in-law and he called it his small car as the Mercury Cougar was only 5 litre (300 cu in) where his Mercury Marquise was 7 litre today just could not afford the petrol.

They wanted him to pay for damage but he refused as he pointed out it was not the pump he was using but the pump being used on other side of the re-fuelling island so it was down to the other motorist to have replaced the nozzle correctly not him.

He did not pay for the damage.

Today forecourts have means to auto retract a hose after use so unlikely to happen today. Except where one still re-fuels from the side of the road. I only know of one remaining garage where you refuel while still on the road in the high street in Bala.
 
I'd imagine something similar to whats fitted to a lot of exhibition vehicles would be ideal, they generally have an auto eject cee-form inlet connector... when the ignition is started the connector is pushed out.
 
I imagine they have something much simpler, cheaper and less likely to go wrong.

Like it just won't start if the charging lead is plugged in.

You'd have to be bonkers (and have your CV up to date for when you got sacked as a designer for being bonkers) to decide that the thing to do was to try and eject the connector so that the owner could drive away and leave his lead behind.

:rolleyes:
 
Some ambulances have an auto eject function on charging leads.

My cousin in Canada forgot to unplug the lead to the sump heater and drove out of the garage with it still connected.

( a sump heater is a small emersion heater use to warm the engine oil in the bitterly cold winter )
 
Some ambulances have an auto eject function on charging leads.
I can see a need for a vehicle like that to have to depart as a matter of urgency, so there'd be an interest in a system which facilitated that.


My cousin in Canada forgot to unplug the lead to the sump heater and drove out of the garage with it still connected.
I was going to ask if anybody knew what the experiences are in places where they use block heaters.
 

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