Electrical fire from socket after testing done by an electrician
- Thread starter Kysi
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Did you get the £750 bill after the NIC forced him to come back and spend "several hours" testing & inspecting?
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There was a video of the interview, and the point was made if the scheme operators were doing their job there should be quite a number of members who had been thrown out because of not complying, as there is for other regulated trades, be it MOT inspector or plumber. However it was a extremely low percentage and commercial electricians were making the point that the Unions before removal of closed shop were doing a better job of regulating the trade. Unless they could show they were actually regulating who could work on domestic properties then the schemes were little more than a tax. This was clearly not full accepted or Part P registration of work would have been totally scrapped, and this did not happen.
Likely after such a damming report the scheme operators have bucked up their ideas, I know my son was doing inspection and testing for a firm in one of the schemes, yet he was never tested by the scheme operator, yes he had his C&G2391 and so have I, but it was up to the firm to decide if my son had the skill, not the scheme operator, only with sole traders are the electricians doing the work tested by the scheme operator. Firms with 50 electricians may have a number of electricians doing there own testing and inspecting who are not individually inspected by the scheme operator, it's just luck who's work they inspect.
When it all started I thought the electrician made out the installation certificate which went to the firms office to be checked, who in turn sent it to the scheme operator who issued the compliance certificate and forwarded the certificate to the local authority, however that's not the case, resent reports about building control on BBC web site have pointed out there are a lot of properties where they can't decide if in England or Wales never mind what county, I would have thought the rates bill would tell one, but it seems the councils come to an agreement as to who collects, but it does not mean that's the boarder, Chester foot ball club is mainly in Wales, but considered an English club.
So it would be hard for scheme operators to forward certificated to LABC when they don't know which one to forward them to. It seems the certificate is not forwarded the electrician just tells the scheme operator it complies. The idea that I could go to LABC and ask them who wired my house it seems would not work. Also there is no way to cancel a compliance or completion certificate because work has been removed or altered. I looked at my mothers house, when rewired there was no reference to work done and not removed during the rewire. I know there are three certificates, one for kitchen, one for wet room, and one for rest of house, but there is nothing on the rewire certificate to say there are two others in force for the house.
So if I was to have a problem with a socket in mothers house, there is no paperwork which says the socket in living room on the wall adjoining kitchen was wired by Joe Blogs in November 2016. It could have been wired by Fred in 2010 when the kitchen was rewired. It could also be a spur my dad took from kitchen wiring, or I had taken from living room wiring. There is no paperwork to say who wired that socket.
The power shower has been removed, I am sure the cable has been disconnected at the FCU, however if this is not the case, and some one was electrocuted, then to follow a paper trail to find out who failed to disconnect it would be near impossible. I don't know never mind paperwork. Shower changed to non power type when boiler was fitted so could have been firm who fitted central heating, or me, or dad, or my son, or firm who wired kitchen. I have not got a single bit of paperwork showing what has been removed.
What we need is some one to admit it was their fault, the paperwork is useless, OK it says that person worked on the system, but unless they admit they forgot to tighten a screw, it means nothing.
I remember my dad sending a sewing machine for repair, on return he took it apart to see what they had done. He caused another fault in the process. We do get people who will disturb things, they don't intend to cause problems, but they can, and even if no one has been fiddling if the electrician says that's not how I left it, then impossible to say it was. At the end of the day it's down to the electrician saying OK I'll fix it. All the paperwork is really useless.
Likely after such a damming report the scheme operators have bucked up their ideas, I know my son was doing inspection and testing for a firm in one of the schemes, yet he was never tested by the scheme operator, yes he had his C&G2391 and so have I, but it was up to the firm to decide if my son had the skill, not the scheme operator, only with sole traders are the electricians doing the work tested by the scheme operator. Firms with 50 electricians may have a number of electricians doing there own testing and inspecting who are not individually inspected by the scheme operator, it's just luck who's work they inspect.
When it all started I thought the electrician made out the installation certificate which went to the firms office to be checked, who in turn sent it to the scheme operator who issued the compliance certificate and forwarded the certificate to the local authority, however that's not the case, resent reports about building control on BBC web site have pointed out there are a lot of properties where they can't decide if in England or Wales never mind what county, I would have thought the rates bill would tell one, but it seems the councils come to an agreement as to who collects, but it does not mean that's the boarder, Chester foot ball club is mainly in Wales, but considered an English club.
So it would be hard for scheme operators to forward certificated to LABC when they don't know which one to forward them to. It seems the certificate is not forwarded the electrician just tells the scheme operator it complies. The idea that I could go to LABC and ask them who wired my house it seems would not work. Also there is no way to cancel a compliance or completion certificate because work has been removed or altered. I looked at my mothers house, when rewired there was no reference to work done and not removed during the rewire. I know there are three certificates, one for kitchen, one for wet room, and one for rest of house, but there is nothing on the rewire certificate to say there are two others in force for the house.
So if I was to have a problem with a socket in mothers house, there is no paperwork which says the socket in living room on the wall adjoining kitchen was wired by Joe Blogs in November 2016. It could have been wired by Fred in 2010 when the kitchen was rewired. It could also be a spur my dad took from kitchen wiring, or I had taken from living room wiring. There is no paperwork to say who wired that socket.
The power shower has been removed, I am sure the cable has been disconnected at the FCU, however if this is not the case, and some one was electrocuted, then to follow a paper trail to find out who failed to disconnect it would be near impossible. I don't know never mind paperwork. Shower changed to non power type when boiler was fitted so could have been firm who fitted central heating, or me, or dad, or my son, or firm who wired kitchen. I have not got a single bit of paperwork showing what has been removed.
What we need is some one to admit it was their fault, the paperwork is useless, OK it says that person worked on the system, but unless they admit they forgot to tighten a screw, it means nothing.
I remember my dad sending a sewing machine for repair, on return he took it apart to see what they had done. He caused another fault in the process. We do get people who will disturb things, they don't intend to cause problems, but they can, and even if no one has been fiddling if the electrician says that's not how I left it, then impossible to say it was. At the end of the day it's down to the electrician saying OK I'll fix it. All the paperwork is really useless.
The trouble with testing a socket circuit, typically a ring circuit, is that you have to disconnect it to test it.
Once you've tested it, how do you test it once you've connected it back up - to ensure your reconnection is sound?
TBH it's best just to double check everything as you're putting it all back together - but many people don't work light that.
Once you've tested it, how do you test it once you've connected it back up - to ensure your reconnection is sound?
TBH it's best just to double check everything as you're putting it all back together - but many people don't work light that.
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Indeed - it's one of the ironies of testing, and it's far from unique to the testing of electrical circuits. Unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that a least a few of the problems which arise in electrical installations are the consequence of (well-intentioned) testing - more so that was the case a few decades back, when comprehensive testing was rare (or difficult/impossible) and hence connections often left 'undisturbed' for very many years. The fact that 'live tests' are generally undertaken after the ones that involve disconnecting/reconnecting is obviously of some help, since those live tests will pick up a good few of the issues which can be created by the previous testing.
In the case of a ring final circuit, one extra thing one could do would be to measure loop impedances (both L-E and L-N) from a particular socket (probably best near the middle of the ring) before disconnecting the circuit as well as after reconnecting the circuit. If those figures differ appreciably, investigation is required. That obviously will not pick up all potential 'consequences of testing', but it might be considered to be better than nothing.
Kind Regards, John
As this is under investigation by the NICEIC, I don't wish to post the pictures on a public forum at this point in time but the heat definitely seem to have come from the neutral pin as that part of the socket was obliterated and the back plastic of the adapter melted.
The adapter that was plugged in was actually a powerline internet adapter similar to this with a passthrough socket which was connected to a fairly powerful computer and an HD monitor, nothing out of the ordinary and the setup has been the same for the past few years. It was fine until the electrician came and opened up the socket for "testing" before Christmas and since then, there were occasional power cuts were the computer would shut off randomly.
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No, I paid him within a couple days after the job. It was only after a couple of months when he still failed to send over the certificates nor informed building control of the new board, I had to contact the NICEIC. On hindsight, I should have held back some money until I got all the paperwork.
Bottom line is that I am very surprised and disturbed about what had happened and what I went through with a job contracted out of a supposedly properly registered and licensed electrician.
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