Employment Tribunals.

[conny]

Anyone ever used one and how difficult was it?

Did you win your case?

 

[Biker1959]

I have never used one but I expect you would need professional advice- with any Tribunal it depends how strong your case is.

 

[motorbiking]

Winning is about the strength of the claim. Are you fighting for a statutory right or a contractual one?

why not test it out on some people who are better qualified to answer? (noting that you will need to word it carefully to maintain anonymity)

http://swarblaw.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=18

 

[Mottie]

I’ve used one and I lost. I paid for professional advice on how to prepare my case but to be honest, by the time it got to tribunal (18 months later) I couldn’t be bothered - months of preparation and on the day, the judge said he didn’t want to read all that so I was given half an hour to whittle it down to about 25% of what I had!

Basically, I worked for a charity, running a training centre for 15 years, no trouble apart from a few arguments with general manager about how my dept should be run. I was right, he was wrong and I had built a motor vehicle training operation from a small tin shed to a large workshop that included a MOT testing station and functioning garage but he didn’t like it. He picked what I can only say was an argument over my contract that he wanted, among other things, to change and restrict my holidays and for me to give 12 weeks notice if I ever wanted to leave! Of course, I argued and one day he came round and suspended me for basically arguing with him and going over his head to the committee. He basically chose the committee and they were all old, frail people that he could bully into giving him what he wanted. He was a proper selfish, spiteful dick. After a weeks suspension I decided I’d had enough and jacked my job in. The very next day, the premises were repossessed by the landlord for non payment of rent and it became obvious to me then that they knew that was going to happen for some time and suspended me, either hoping I’d leave and if not, issue dismissal proceedings so they didn’t have to pay me a considerable redundancy payment.

The reason I wasn’t bothered was because I had the last laugh - I got on very well with all the people we had contracts with and they helped me find new premises, I started a company, employed all my old colleagues and took over all contracts for my dept that my old company had. This was in 2010 and I haven’t looked back. Oh, and the sweetener was that the landlord (local authority) took my old employers to court and they had to settle out of court for £50k plus they evicted them from some other premises that they were basically squatting in and didn’t renew the contracts for all other work they had with them. Karma.

 

[motorbiking]

So did you sue for constructive dismissal? As I'm sure you know your case had merit, but you failed the procedural test, which almost certainly killed it.
Never quit without raising a grievance first.

 

[Mottie]

That’s about the sum of it. Anyway, all water under the bridge now. In my case, the training programmes were geared to the academic year. I resigned just before the summer holiday and when I heard they had lost the premises, was able to be up and running the new business in time for the new term. I even nicked the name for my limited company as it was all my idea in the first place, which ticked him off pretty good too. Had I not resigned and he hadn’t suspended me, I would have got a decent redundancy payout but would have missed the start of the academic year as I wouldn’t have been able to work while working my notice, the contracts would have gone out to other providers and would have been lost to me for good. I’ve had a bloody good, hassle free 8 years so far, working half the hours for twice the money so I was just lucky that he took his spite out on me when he did. As my old Dad used to say, he who laughs last, laughs loudest.

 

[motorbiking]

I even nicked the name for my limited company as it was all my idea in the first place, which ticked him off pretty good too.

Think about investing £200-£250
https://www.gov.uk/how-to-register-a-trade-mark

In the UK Employees IP belongs to the employer. Trademarking the name helps you protect it.

I very much doubt you had the idea while you were still in his employment. I'ms sure it didn't really form in your mind as a complete vision until after you left

 

[conny]

Going for victimisation and harassment.
Without giving too much away, we have a limited number of 'occurrences' allowed before removal from the sick scheme for 12 months. These 'occurrences' are for personal sickness, however, as my wifes main carer, (she is disabled), I am able to take time off work to take her to hospital appointments etc and these days cannot be used to discipline me in any way. They don't have to pay me for this time off, and have now stopped doing so, though historically they did. Recently they removed me from the scheme because I had 2 occurrences of personal 'sickness', (1 day mid August then 3 weeks in September. Both related to the same problem). It was 2 days after my return to work after the September absence that I was told I'd been removed from the scheme the day before my treatment. They had used previous 'Carer' days against my personal allowance as the reason yet they knew when my treatment was starting weeks before it did and said nothing! I lost 3 weeks money without warning. On appeal to a higher manager it was upheld and I was re-instated and lost pay was to be fully repaid. Happy days, I had got back what was legally mine.

2 weeks ago I had left my wife in hospital overnight because of an emergency. Came home early hours of the morning to find 2 small birds had fell down the chimney and were flying around the lounge. The mess of soot and bowel movements was horrendous. Managed to set them free eventually so had to start clearing the mess up. I contacted my team leader to ask for an emergency days holiday which he granted verbally, (though I do have a later text message confirming he said this). The following day I discovered someone in HR had rescinded the holiday and it was classed as unauthorised absence

 

[Mottie]

I very much doubt you had the idea while you were still in his employment. I'ms sure it didn't really form in your mind as a complete vision until after you left

Honestly, it didn’t. I laughed my head off though when someone from the local authority that I dealt with phoned me and told me what had happened 24 hours after I left. It was then that they told me that they were more than happy to deal with me if I could find premises and they put me in touch with someone that could help me find them. When I found somewhere, they even gave me a grant to fit the workshop out. As the local authority were both the landlord and a major buyer of our services, I suppose they could have had the idea in the back of their mind as they had students that were halfway through a two year course and others that were timetabled to start in the new academic year and they did forfeit the lease on the last week of the school term and not halfway through but they wouldn’t be that devious, would they?

 

[motorbiking]

I contacted my team leader to ask for an emergency days holiday which he granted verbally, (though I do have a later text message confirming he said this). The following day I discovered someone in HR had rescinded the holiday and it was classed as unauthorised absence

This seems like a grievance - Is your team leader authorised to grant you leave? If he is, then you make a grievance that the leave was not unauthorised access. If he wasn't authorised, then you probably should have known this.

Playing devils advocate - was there any reason you couldn't have cleaned it up at another time?

 

[conny]

Team leader does have authority in the absence of the dept manager.
Didn't want to leave it because I was up half the night, (had less then 2 hours sleep and work 25 miles away), cleaning what I could without needing noisy equipment, i.e. vacuum cleaner. On top of this, as my wife was in hospital at the time, I would need to take my autistic step son to college the following morning as it was very late the previous evening when it was decided my wife would be staying in hospital over night. The final clincher was the roofer, who claimed to operate a 24 hr service, said he couldn't be there until 9.30 am and may need access indoors to check the flue.

 

[motorbiking]

Have you already explored grievance and appeal process? - This pretty much has to be done before considering an ET. Its worth noting that it seems like your employer is making reasonable adjustments to support you. Your grievance is that the absence was approved by an authorised manager and you have evidence of that.

 

[conny]

I've set the grievance process in motion but am not hopeful of a successful out outcome before I have to return to work. Just spent 6 days in hospital due to stress induced angina which was diagnosed after an angiogram and which confirmed my heart and general health are all in good condition. Consultants recommendation is to stay away from work until situation is resolved or remove myself from the situation if it can't be. Union advice is that if I have to remove myself permanently I may have a case for 'Constructive Dismissal'. Just trying to find some info on the success rate of tribunals for this kind of thing.

 

[Ian H]

What do you work as?

 

[motorbiking]

guys - public forum!! You never know who is reading.