Engine oil

[Dave54]

Interesting about your Peugeot - would expect that normally But our 207 goes in to a Main Dealer ( Supplied it new ) and has Oil/Filter and MOT once a year and it cost £110 all in - with the book stamped I can`t buy the correct oil for less than £40 @ a Halfords or an independant . Must be one of the few Good Things in Sussex

I just realised it was Mobil oil I bought, but whatever. It's £24 for 5L at Halfords, I think the 1 L bottle was the thick end of £20.

Funny thing is I just had the letter come through today "your car is due etc."
It's also it's first MOT, and it needs brake fluid replacing. (fair enough I suppose) and the air con recharging. The people at this dealer are very helpful etc. and have a good reputation. But I can't see me getting the MOT and basic service for £110! We'll see.

 

[roy c]

I have a 1976 Vw camper van and it only takes 2.5 litres of oil in the engine, I use Morris 30 oil and change it every 1500- 2000 miles. The gearbox holds 3.5 litres of oil , I have changed that once and I dont think I will be changing that for a while!! Morris oil is not the cheapest but reccomended for air-cooled v-dubs. Do any of you remember Duckhams Q 20/50 that was popular in the late 60's 70's . I dont know wether you can still get it.....I do believe that it is worth paying more for a reliable brand of oil (my own opinion).

 

[bikeit]

I ended up buying some Castrol Edge oil got it for £30 for 4Lt from Amazon.

 

[Burnerman]

Oil suppilers for classic cars can still provide 20/50 - I remember in the '70's the green Duckhams in the yellow can was always the one to use!
The straight 30 grade is best for air cooled engines as its viscosity stable across the wide variety of temperature differences that the engine has to cope with.
John
P.S For those that question oil prices, check out dealer prices for the BMW M3 - 10/60

 

[Dave54]

Duckham's Q20-50. We used to sell gallons of it when I had a Saturday job in a car accessory shop. 1970-71. Can't remember the price, although the gaffer there used to send me to have a look to see what the other places were selling it for.

 

[JohnD]

I've still got green Duckhams in my garage oil squirty cans.

There may be a can under the bench.

 

[Dave54]

I've still got green Duckhams in my garage oil squirty cans.

There may be a can under the bench.

There's "Castrolite" in mine, and I think I still have some left too.

 

[Avocet]

Oil suppilers for classic cars can still provide 20/50 - I remember in the '70's the green Duckhams in the yellow can was always the one to use!
The straight 30 grade is best for air cooled engines as its viscosity stable across the wide variety of temperature differences that the engine has to cope with.
John
P.S For those that question oil prices, check out dealer prices for the BMW M3 - 10/60

That's odd? I thought the whole reason multigrades were invented was to try and limit the viscosity change with changes in temperature? Straight 30 ought to be like water once up to operating temperature. I think air cooled engines generally run hotter than water cooled, so they might have "special needs" from a lubrication point of view, but I'm guessing the second number needs to be higher, if anything, for them?

 

[roy c]

Oil suppilers for classic cars can still provide 20/50 - I remember in the '70's the green Duckhams in the yellow can was always the one to use!
The straight 30 grade is best for air cooled engines as its viscosity stable across the wide variety of temperature differences that the engine has to cope with.
John
P.S For those that question oil prices, check out dealer prices for the BMW M3 - 10/60

That's odd? I thought the whole reason multigrades were invented was to try and limit the viscosity change with changes in temperature? Straight 30 ought to be like water once up to operating temperature. I think air cooled engines generally run hotter than water cooled, so they might have "special needs" from a lubrication point of view, but I'm guessing the second number needs to be higher, if anything, for them?

No Morris 30 oil is the oil reccomended for air-cooled v-dubs..

 

[Dave54]

Oil suppilers for classic cars can still provide 20/50 - I remember in the '70's the green Duckhams in the yellow can was always the one to use!
The straight 30 grade is best for air cooled engines as its viscosity stable across the wide variety of temperature differences that the engine has to cope with.
John
P.S For those that question oil prices, check out dealer prices for the BMW M3 - 10/60

That's odd? I thought the whole reason multigrades were invented was to try and limit the viscosity change with changes in temperature? Straight 30 ought to be like water once up to operating temperature. I think air cooled engines generally run hotter than water cooled, so they might have "special needs" from a lubrication point of view, but I'm guessing the second number needs to be higher, if anything, for them?

No Morris 30 oil is the oil reccomended for air-cooled v-dubs..

I'm far from any sort of expert, but I've read that for lots of older engines, from pre multigrade times, single grade oil is still the way to go, with a change for Summer /Winter use if necessary. It's what the engines are designed to use, and some of them don't like the detergent in modern oils.
Having said that multigrade doesn't apparently give problems with most engines. I've used single grade oils in old bikes, and they don't go like water when they get hot. Thinner yes, but all oil does that. I thought the main point about multigrades was that it was thinner when the engine was cold, limiting "start up wear" rather than thicker when the engine was hot.

 

[Burnerman]

Its really all to do with engine temperatures, and the way that the chain polymers in the oil are affected.
On a modern water cooled engine, the oil temperature is stable at say a maximum 120 degrees, and so thats as high as the oil design needs to act on.
On air cooled engines then the oil temperature can be vey much higher and a monograde oil is (was, maybe) claimed to be better.
You can imagine a VW Beetle engine, which has to operate in a winter UK, where the ambient temperature is say 4 degrees - and the same engine has to perform in the tropics with an ambient air temperature of 45 degrees...thats a large task which dictates that air cooled engines need and have an oil cooler.
Although the viscosity of the oil may be very thin indeed, its the chemical chain polymer that wraps itself into the bearing that counts, minimising wear.
Hopefully!
John

 

[Avocet]

Hmmmm, I've always struggled with this one! There's a similar debate that rages on a boating forum I sometimes hang out on. Often boat engines are pretty old and people often ask about using modern oils (the question being whether the "best" (i.e. most expensive fully synthetic oil) that money can buy will be better for their engine than what was originally specified or not).

One school of thought holds that modern synthetics are, of course, much better and the only reason they're not specified is that they weren't invented at the time the engine was made. The other is that they can be positively detrimental to old engines, because they're "too slippy", "too thin when cold" or that they need to work at a higher temperature or somesuch.

OK, small, seawater-cooled marine diesels are a special case when it comes to use, because they run stone cold so that the seawater's corrosive effects are minimised. They also tend to get left standing for long periods and they rarely get used long enough to evaporate the unburned fuel from cold startup out of the oil.

Anyway, back to the air cooled VWs, I can't for the life of me think why being air-cooled, in itself, necessitates a straight monograde oil? I mean, do Porsche specify a monograde for their current air-cooled engines? (I can't think of anyone else who makes an aircooled engine these days - even the 911s have water-cooled heads, I believe?)!

The only air-cooled 4 strokes that I have are my Briggs & Stratton lawn mower (which DOES specify a straight 30!) and a couple of small Honda engines (from a lawnmower and a generator) whose manuals recommend a 10W30 multigrade of API standard "SJ or later", so I'm still none the wiser!

 

[roy c]

Hmmmm, I've always struggled with this one! There's a similar debate that rages on a boating forum I sometimes hang out on. Often boat engines are pretty old and people often ask about using modern oils (the question being whether the "best" (i.e. most expensive fully synthetic oil) that money can buy will be better for their engine than what was originally specified or not).

One school of thought holds that modern synthetics are, of course, much better and the only reason they're not specified is that they weren't invented at the time the engine was made. The other is that they can be positively detrimental to old engines, because they're "too slippy", "too thin when cold" or that they need to work at a higher temperature or somesuch.

OK, small, seawater-cooled marine diesels are a special case when it comes to use, because they run stone cold so that the seawater's corrosive effects are minimised. They also tend to get left standing for long periods and they rarely get used long enough to evaporate the unburned fuel from cold startup out of the oil.

Anyway, back to the air cooled VWs, I can't for the life of me think why being air-cooled, in itself, necessitates a straight monograde oil? I mean, do Porsche specify a monograde for their current air-cooled engines? (I can't think of anyone else who makes an aircooled engine these days - even the 911s have water-cooled heads, I believe?)!

The only air-cooled 4 strokes that I have are my Briggs & Stratton lawn mower (which DOES specify a straight 30!) and a couple of small Honda engines (from a lawnmower and a generator) whose manuals recommend a 10W30 multigrade of API standard "SJ or later", so I'm still none the wiser!

Well the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin' and I have been running my VW's on 30 grade oil for years and I am happy to do so . Trust me I am a builder.....

 

[Burnerman]

Its the advanced machining available that allows the very thin synthetic oils - after all, no running in - to be used today, but for the old clunker engines you can guarantee that mechanical noise would be much more noticable!
Consider the oil change intervals too....on many petrol engines, the oil comes out almost as clean as it went in.
On diesels, turbo speeds dictate very high spec oils, and its the detergent within that makes the oil so black.
We notice that there's little distinction between diesel and petrol lubricants these days - often enough, one brew is fine for both.
John

 

[Avocet]

Well the proof of the puddin' is in the eatin' and I have been running my VW's on 30 grade oil for years and I am happy to do so . Trust me I am a builder.....

Yes but of course they'll run with straight 30 - that's what they were designed for! The question is whether they'd run BETTER (or, indeed, worse, or the same) with a multigrade. For all we know, you might be able to leave oil changes for 5000 or even 10,000 miles if you did? If you're changing it every 2000 miles you could probably use cooking oil and it would be OK! I know this is a sort of "academic" question (if I were in your position I'm not sure I'd want to take the risk), but I have always wondered...