English - Welsh scheme requirements.

[ericmark]

As suggested moving something raised on another post and asking about something raised.

Up to April I did not care if the house was in England or Wales I am only about 5 miles from boarder and although house owner will know who he pays council tax to I have never worried which side of the boarder.

However now there are different rules so Chester football club has to charge 5p for any plastic bags it issues as the club is in Wales even though the car park is in England. But it plays in English league.

OK they are not domestic so Part P is not a problem but the boarder is not well defined it followed the path of the old river before it was canalised and it is hard even for a local to work out where the boarder runs.

So when a scheme member does work does he have to fill in what principality or country the property is in? With England and Scotland it is a country boarder but England and Wales it's a principality boarder that's why Wales is not included on the Union Jack.

If we take the channel Islands, Isle of Man, Scotland and Wales away from whole of UK the England is in the minority. I think the whole idea of UK is flawed as we are no longer united. Maybe it should be called XUK? The commonwealth is similar but not looking at political things just how we can work on the boarders with the different rules.

I regularly shop in Ellesmere Port to get some free carrier bags but will always visit Welsh hospitals so no parking charges and would object most strongly to prescription charges.

I am sure even more conflict with Erie and Ulster with even vat being different yet I drove into and out of Erie without realising.

So if a scheme member does work in Wales and thinks he is in England does the scheme operator write to him pointing out his mistake?

 

[JohnW2]

So when a scheme member does work does he have to fill in what principality or country the property is in? So if a scheme member does work in Wales and thinks he is in England does the scheme operator write to him pointing out his mistake?

I'm not sure that I understand your point. The Scheme will presumably only ever become aware of any work if a member 'notifies' it to them. It is up to the electrician to determine whether (s)he is working in England or Wales and hence whether or not the work involved is notifiable - the Scheme will presumably never become aware of work which has not been 'notified' to them, even if it should have been.

Hence, the 'worst' I can see a scheme becoming aware of is that work undertaken in England (maybe by a Welsh electrician) after 5th April has been 'notified' to them unnecessarily, but I can't see them (or anyone else) being too worried about that. If an electrician working in Wales fails to communicate with his/her scheme about work which should have been notified (but perhaps would not now have required notification in England), then the scheme will never know about it. The electrician is the only person who can ensure that notification happens when it should.

Am I missing the point?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Your correct but if a home owner in Wales wants to sell and a solicitor asks for the completion certificates who do they ask? The electrician or scheme operator?

Assuming the electrician has ceased to trade then who will correct the error?

I asked a member of the camera club about news about Wales following England and he was under the illusion that Wales and England had both reduced the requirements.

It would seem his scheme provider had given him wrong information I wonder how many have been wrongly advised?

 

[JohnW2]

Your correct but if a home owner in Wales wants to sell and a solicitor asks for the completion certificates who do they ask? The electrician or scheme operator?

I though that LAs were the only people who could issue completion certificates.

Assuming the electrician has ceased to trade then who will correct the error?

If the 'error' you're talking about is failure to notify something which should have been notified, that problem existed both before and after April 6th, and in both England and Wales, so I see no new issue.

Kind Regards, John

 

[riveralt]

I though that LAs were the only people who could issue completion certificates.

No for competent person scheme members they are issued by the competent scheme directly to the customer.
The Local Authority is informed by the Scheme of the certification.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do postcodes straddle the border?

 

[riveralt]

Do postcodes straddle the border?

Not normally - but I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Surely if you feel it is notifiable then you notify your scheme - let them sort out which Country it is.

 

[JohnW2]

I though that LAs were the only people who could issue completion certificates.

No for competent person scheme members they are issued by the competent scheme directly to the customer. The Local Authority is informed by the Scheme of the certification.

I understand the process, but (and perhaps this wasn't clear) I was questioning the terminolgy. I thought that self certifiers (or their scheme operators) issued "Building Regulation Compliance Certificates" and that only LAs issued "Building Regulations Completion Certificates". Is that wrong?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

The electrical work requires a compliance certificate whether self-certified or LA certified.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do postcodes straddle the border?

Not normally - but I'm not sure what the issue is here.

Surely if you feel it is notifiable then you notify your scheme - let them sort out which Country it is.

I think Eric is worried that if some work is NOT notifiable in England so you don't notify and then it turns out to be abroad where it is notifiable because they don't know where the border is.

I wouldn't lose any sleep.

 

[JohnW2]

The electrical work requires a compliance certificate whether self-certified or LA certified.

My only source of information about such matters is Approved Doc P, and that makes no mention of a Compliance Certificate for LA-certified work (only for self-cert work). Who would issue the Compliance Certificate if, say, a DIYer had done the work?

Kind REgards, John

 

[riveralt]

My only source of information about such matters is Approved Doc P, and that makes no mention of a Compliance Certificate for LA-certified work (only for self-cert work). Who would issue the Compliance Certificate if, say, a DIYer had done the work?

Having recently retired, well trying to, and no longer a member of Napit , I recently did a full re-wire for a house as a DIYer.
The LA issued the Building Regulation Completion Certificate after I provided them with the appropriate test certificates - as well as every City and Guild certificate, my contractors insurance and my old Napit certificate.

 

[JohnW2]

My only source of information about such matters is Approved Doc P, and that makes no mention of a Compliance Certificate for LA-certified work (only for self-cert work). Who would issue the Compliance Certificate if, say, a DIYer had done the work?

Having recently retired, well trying to, and no longer a member of Napit , I recently did a full re-wire for a house as a DIYer. The LA issued the Building Regulation Completion Certificate after I provided them with the appropriate test certificates - as well as every City and Guild certificate, my contractors insurance and my old Napit certificate.

Yes, that's fully consisted with what App Doc P says. My comment was in response to EFLI's suggestion that LA-certified work (i.e. that for which they would issue a Completion Cert, after whatever testing was undertaken) required someone to also issue a Compliance Certificate - and I can't really see who that could be if it were DIY work.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

It appears I am wrong but not being a fan of Approved Documents I haven't read that.
I had always assumed - haven't dealt with LA since Part P - that customers would receive the same by whichever route.
It would seem illogical but that doesn't make it a rarity, does it.

Self-certifier does work - customer receives a compliance certificate but may not be complete.
DIYer goes through LA - customer receives a completion certificate but may not comply.
Is it any wonder no one cares.

What does the the completion certificate look like?
The compliance certificate looks like the customer has won an award for excellence.

 

[ericmark]

From NICEIC site:-

The NICEIC will check all notification information provided by Domestic Installers. Unless it is found to be incomplete or invalid, the information will be printed on to a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate and sent to the customer on the Domestic Installer's behalf. At the same time, the information required for building control purposes will be forwarded electronically to the appropriate local authority.

To be able to do this clearly the electrician must enter on the form which LA the property is under. Since we have a CH (Chester) post code it can't be sorted by post code.

Failure to arrange for the issue of a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate for any electrical installation work notifiable under Part P but not notified to Building Control in advance will be a criminal offence. Compliance with the legal requirements will be vigorously enforced by the NICEIC and Local Authorities.

Clearly from that NICEIC will be doing something to ensure its members know what work has to be notified.

However my Mother has just had a new socket fitted by the local authority who used a scheme member contractor and no minor works or installation certificate was issued so local authorities clearly don't vigorously enforce compliance.