EU referendum

[JBR]

The proposal for an EU referendum has been vetoed by the Lords.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/457246/EU-Referendum-Bill-killed-off-in-the-House-of-Lords

Whose idea was it that a body of unelected people could be permitted to deny us any say in the future of our country? In fact, what purpose does the House of Lords serve anyway?

I was under the impression that we live in a democracy.

 

[Dextraneous]

Did you honestly think that there would be a referendum? Cameron must be rubbing his hands in glee that he can sidestep the issue whilst appearing to be the good guy.

 

[JBR]

To be honest, I have pretty much given up on leaving the EU. Even if we had a referendum, and even if the referendum showed a majority in favour of leaving the EU, and even if the government of the time decided to act on the referendum outcome, 2017 or later is rather like shutting the door after the horse has bolted. So why bother? By then, Brussels' grip on our country will be even tighter anyway.

No, my real point is that, although we call ourselves a democracy, the country is by no means run for the benefit of the people. The best we can hope for is to elect a government chosen by the people, although 'first past the post' is far from being a fair system. But why the House of Lords? We do not elect them. As far as I can see, membership of the Lords is via an 'old boys' club', yet it seems that these unelected people have the power to prevent laws being passed and, more importantly, they can prevent our having a say in what we want through a referendum.

Personally, I believe that referenda should be held far more frequently for the more important things that affect us directly.

 

[jockscott]

It's high time the "Party Whip" system was either abandoned or outlawed (yeah I can see that getting through the bloody House of Lords )
Allowing our elected representatives a free vote on all manner of motions.
We the electorate can then see how our MP's vote on all of the things that affect us. I'm sure our MP's would actually start listening to their constituents, rather than toeing the party line. (which, let's face it, isn't always what the electorate want)

PS It's high time the House of Lords was either disbanded, or replaced by an elected HoL, same as the Commons.

 

[ellal]

Did you honestly think that there would be a referendum? Cameron must be rubbing his hands in glee that he can sidestep the issue whilst appearing to be the good guy.

He (or his masters) have played a blinder...

I have always maintained the 'if there ever is a referendum' stance, and this is but another piece of the plan to refuse the people to actually have a say on what they want...

But it was always thus!

 

[Norcon]

Whats certain from this development is that the Tories are the ones who are offering the choice of freedom for the UK peoples.

The limp dem and failed labour "enemies of democracy" know the peoples choice will be "freedom".

 

[AronSearle]

People voted for EU integration (anyone who cries "well I didn't vote for this", just didn't bother to read the small print).

People whine about leaving the EU, but don't really do much about it, no real (if any) protests, no hard campaigning, just a bit of whining in papers/forums and the UKIP protest vote (who get less than 20% of the vote).

Why should MP's be bothered about giving us a referendum when the majority give them impression they either don't care or are happy to be in.

This isnt a failure of democracy.

 

[JBR]

It's high time the "Party Whip" system was either abandoned or outlawed (yeah I can see that getting through the bloody House of Lords )
Allowing our elected representatives a free vote on all manner of motions.
We the electorate can then see how our MP's vote on all of the things that affect us. I'm sure our MP's would actually start listening to their constituents, rather than toeing the party line. (which, let's face it, isn't always what the electorate want)

PS It's high time the House of Lords was either disbanded, or replaced by an elected HoL, same as the Commons.

I agree completely. Public accountability of MPs should be very easy these days: the way each MP votes could be recorded electronically and published on the internet. On what grounds could they possible object?

As for the Lords, I believe there is a case for the existence of a second chamber in order that important proposals must be given a second and independent reading, but members should be elected by the public.

 

[JBR]

People voted for EU integration (anyone who cries "well I didn't vote for this", just didn't bother to read the small print).

I understood that people voted for admission to the EEC, but that the metamorphosis of this free-trade organisation into a political superstate was engineered by politicians.

 

[Norcon]

"People voted for EU integration (anyone who cries "well I didn't vote for this", just didn't bother to read the small print)"


The people were duped.
What layman could ever have understood the small print?

And those that had an inkling of an understanding kept their traps shut.

And like the referendums in Ireland they were rigged to give the right outcome.

 

[jockscott]

And like the referendums in Ireland they were rigged to give the right outcome.

Hmmm, and there I thought the Irish voted NO,,, then the EU threw sh*t loads of Euros at them, then gave them another vote.

Had the Irish voted NO a second time, I reckon another sh*t load of money would have been thrown at them.

 

[Norcon]

And like the referendums in Ireland they were rigged to give the right outcome.

Hmmm, and there I thought the Irish voted NO,,, then the EU threw sh*t loads of Euros at them, then gave them another vote.

Had the Irish voted NO a second time, I reckon another sh*t load of money would have been thrown at them.

All the evidence points to chicanery and rigging.

 

[AronSearle]

I understood that people voted for admission to the EEC, but that the metamorphosis of this free-trade organisation into a political superstate was engineered by politicians.

The people were duped.
What layman could ever have understood the small print?

Yea, its not like there was a no campaign that specifically spelt out that a yes vote would mean more European governance.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

Oh wait....

 

[Norcon]

Like the Irish ones. Grossly under funded I suspect.

 

[JBR]

I understood that people voted for admission to the EEC, but that the metamorphosis of this free-trade organisation into a political superstate was engineered by politicians.

The people were duped.
What layman could ever have understood the small print?

Yea, its not like there was a no campaign that specifically spelt out that a yes vote would mean more European governance.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

Oh wait....

When was that published? Wasn't that when the EEC was a free-trade organisation and well before it became a political union?