EV are they worth it?

[DiyNutJob]

Why would you forget? Do you forget to put petrol in your ICE vehicle and end up calli the AA?

Emotional trauma can cause forgetfulness, likewise when you have other things going on. An ICE will show light when low. Then I can find the nearest petrol station. 5-10 minutes at the pump and all is good again. Can't do that with EV.

What if you forget to unplug in the morning, and drive off? The sling action of the cord could kill someone, damage property, start fire, or all three at the same time! All these are real life practical issues the EV fanciers are too blind to see.

 

[Avocet]

I was sceptical, but a friend said they've used about £190 electricity for their car in the last 6 months. Seems pretty cheap!

It very much depends. Mine does (in round numbers) about 3 miles to the kWh. My "night rate" electricity is 16p per kWh, so that means I'm driving round at 5p per mile in fuel costs, when I charge from home (which, to be fair, is most of my mileage). That's not bad for a three-and-a-half hundred horsepower car!

HOWEVER, I do a lot of long runs for work, (and leisure), and I tend to use very fast chargers. That's a very different story. They can be up to about 80p per kWh. When I do the sums, for those, they're worse than my old diesel. I was running the diesel for about 17p per mile in fuel costs (that will be less, now that diesel has come down, maybe 15-16p), but it was only 130 horsepower. When charging at 80p per kWh, I'm nearer 27p per mile - which is ludicrously expensive!

On the whole, I'm about £100 a month better off on fuel costs, but I do a lot of miles (just passed 12,000 miles and I've only had it since the start of December). The real saving, is in the company car tax.

 

[Avocet]

Emotional trauma can cause forgetfulness, likewise when you have other things going on. An ICE will show light when low. Then I can find the nearest petrol station. 5-10 minutes at the pump and all is good again. Can't do that with EV.

Doesn't emotional trauma happen to ICE drivers, then? And yes, EVs DO have fuel gauges, and they DO have warning lights, and they DO have audible reminders (beeps and spoken, in some cases) AND they have sat-navs with all the charging point locations programmed into them AND they will automatically calculate you a route to a charger if you're getting low...

..but apart from that, no, nothing much, they just stop if they run out...

What if you forget to unplug in the morning, and drive off? All these are real life practical issues the EV fanciers are too blind to see.

You can't. Your car won't "start" if it's pugged in. But don't worry, it also tells you, in case you sit there just thinking it's broken.

 

[Avocet]

Will it be cheap after a minor bump or crash? Write off's always pay less than the cost of buying an equivalent.

After a minor bump or crash, there's no reason why they should cost much more (if anything) to repair. The batteries are pretty well protected. After a more severe one, I' say that yes, there is a good chance they'd be written-off before an ICE vehicle would, because the batteries are so expensive. Of course, in time, battery repair services will evolve (and indeed, replacement batteries will come down in price), but right now, it's true that a moderately severely crashed EV would get written-off, where an ICE vehicle with equivalent damage wouldn't.

 

[DiyNutJob]

After a minor bump or crash, there's no reason why they should cost much more (if anything) to repair. The batteries are pretty well protected.

Without a full examination of the individual cells, they have no way to know if the batteries are damaged. No one is going to declare and sign off the batteries are good. A single damaged cell could burn the whole thing down.

 

[Avocet]

Without a full examination of the individual cells, they have no way to know if the batteries are damaged. No one is going to declare and sign off the batteries are good. A single damaged cell could burn the whole thing down.

The cells are bundled together, and the Battery Management System monitors the health of each individual cell in that bundle. Pinpointng the dodgy cell is pretty easy. Replacing it, is more work, (unless it's a recent Tesla and they've ll been glued together, in which case, it's nigh-impossible). However, that's Tesla's lesson to learn...

 

[ericmark]

DC chargers in mid wales, get real, lucky to find a 22 kW one.

 

[Avocet]

DC chargers in mid wales, get real, lucky to find a 22 kW one.

Whereabouts are you in mid Wales? Cumbria isn't exactly over-burdened with EV chargers (fast, or otherwise!) but I've never really needed to worry about that, because I have enough range to get to pretty much anywhere in Cumbria, and back, on a single charge.

 

[ericmark]

Sorry I thought my profile showed location?

I don't have enough supply to house to use any more than 10 amp to charge car. 60 amp for a three story house is pushing it without adding more.

Yes can charge at work, with a 22 kW charger, but it is being used more and more, so can't guarantee it can be used. And it is a steep walk home. I can pushing hard just about cycle home, need to take breather at grave yard before attempting last bit, so for me only EV is my e-bike.

 

[Avocet]

Sorry I thought my profile showed location?

I don't have enough supply to house to use any more than 10 amp to charge car. 60 amp for a three story house is pushing it without adding more.

Yes can charge at work, with a 22 kW charger, but it is being used more and more, so can't guarantee it can be used. And it is a steep walk home. I can pushing hard just about cycle home, need to take breather at grave yard before attempting last bit, so for me only EV is my e-bike.

Apologies - it does! Never thought to look! Do you use ZapMap? You can set filters on it. There seem to be 50kW DC ones available in Welshpool and Newtown.

Map of electric charging points for electric cars UK: Zapmap

UK-wide map of electric car charging points allowing EV drivers to find EV charge points, plan electric journeys to the nearest ev charging point. A comprehensive map of UK charge points, it includes detailed info on EV charging points and a very engaged community of electric car drivers.

www.zap-map.com

Might be worth looking at Easee chargers - they seem to have some tricky load-sensing capability that I don't understand, but seems to sense the load elsewhere in the system and reduce your charging load transiently, if you're getting near popping the supply fuse? We are fortunate in having a 100 Amp house fuse, but we have no gas, here, so everything is electric. I could certainly (theoretically) pop the fuse even before we got the EV charger, if I really tried - two electric showers, 2 ovens, hob, 3 storage heaters, compressor in the garage, etc.

However, so far, I've found that I don't really have any need of fast chargers that close to home. Winter or summer, I wouldn't even think of charging within a 75 mile radius of where I live. With a bit of care and judicious use of the right foot, I wouldn't worry about charging within 100 miles of where I live, to be honest.

 

[ericmark]

Yes surprised I have not ruptured the fuse, no gas, two electric showers, two kitchens, etc.

 

[robinbanks]

I don't have enough supply to house to use any more than 10 amp to charge car. 60 amp for a three story house is pushing it without adding more.

Your house draws 50 amps all night long? I make that 11.5kWh per hour, or about £3.50 an hour (3pp/kWh) for 8 hours, £28 a night, 30 nights a month means you're spending £850 a month just for your night time usage?
If you never have more than 10 amps available you seem to be saying your leccy bill is around £2500 a month?

Surely you can get some more energy efficient lights for your hydroponics bay?!

Anyway.. technology can solve this problem. I've literally just finished coding a system that takes a feed from a CT clamp around the incomer and works out the spare capacity every 30 seconds, tells the charger the maximum amps it's allowed to draw. Don't get an Easee though; something inside them wears out a little every time you change the power restriction, though Easee weren't specific as to what..

 

[lostinthelight]

I think a push needs to be made for an automated quick change battery/batteries. These batteries can be owned by BP/Shell or whoever and the end user just buys the fuel (the electricity). This would involve fixed standards for dimensions but capacities and technology could improve on the amount the batteries store and hence older EV's no longer have the issue of degradation.
People have doubted the idea but if I mention the Calor gas bottle that I use on my BBQ as an example, I'm sure a similar approach could be applied to batteries...

I agree and said as much in 2017

Petrol/Diesel ban from 2040

No appology necessary Judy, that's what the GD should be about, updating everyones knowledge. I think there was a scheme to give you a free charge point, but not any more; although I suspect it's something you can negotiate with a new car. Charging at home is damned cheap, and I think they'll...

www.diynot.com

 

[ericmark]

I note Cardiff are returning to diesel bin wagons as they don't have the power in the network to charge the electric ones, so it seems we will need to continue with diesel for some time yet. It is all well and good saying we can turn off the EV charging points remotely if there is a shortage of power, but only if official EV points fitted, and then what do the EV owners do?

It will be like when there is a water shortage, and you can't wash your car at home, but you can take it to a car wash, but it costs you more.

 

[bernardgreen]

Another thing that need to be considered is a way to quickly remove the battery from a crashed car.

Not necessary if all the occupants are out of the car, let it burn as water and CO2 are not effective fighting lithium fires.

But if there are people trapped in the car the Fire brigade have to face the risk of the battery self igniting due to damage in the crash ( if not already overheating / burning )