Flueless gas fire making my wall go black!

[DeltaT2]

I would not have one of these in my house.

Well I would and would have a Burley Perception Flueless gas fire in right now- if the one I ordered (and paid for) almost 2 months ago had not had the delivery cancelled 4 times because Burley can not get the parts to assemble it .
Where on earth do they get the parts from ? China ?.

Did you know Flueless fires are banned in Canada, and Burley flueless fires are not sold anywhere in the USA.

Yes I did know about Canada--lots of things are banned there .
I'd bet not many are sold in Japan, Vietnam, outer mongolia or Thailand also .
Regarding Burley fires not being sold in USA it's probably due to cheaper usa made fires there . Bit like Corvettes really cheap in USA but by the time they get to Uk and import duty is stuck on- they become expensive- that's why not many are seen here .
Anyway- it's a different kind of gas in USA.

Typical hairy ar.ed Builder...............'it's a different kind of gas in USA'.............

I e-mailed this thread to my mate from New Jersey, he works in the Oil & Gas industry & he also said 'he pis.ed his pants' reading Pete's enlightened input to this thread...........

Flueless gas fires, wouldn't fit one in a million years. Lethal things!!

 

[doitall]

So are Burley flueless gas fires available in the USA or not DeltaT2.

I still say they are not. but then I like to be proved wrong, or not.

 

[FiremanT]

So are Burley flueless gas fires available in the USA or not DeltaT2.

I still say they are not. but then I like to be proved wrong, or not.

BURLEY may or may not be available in the US. To sell effectvely, they have to compete econimically with domestic (and chinese) products, and Burley would have to find and negotiate with a distributor. I have no idea if they have or not but, regardless, they are not banned in the US. Equivalent fires are widely used - WITHOUT a catalytic converter.

EDIT: Having a quick google, I would say they are NOT sold in the US, but I did come acoss this:
http://www.castironfires.com/flueless-gas-fires.html
and it has a couple of interesting notes (if you are interested, that is) about the US.
As always, every one has the right to choose their area of work, but it is foolhardy to make derisory comments and statements that one cannot support. BTW, I do sell these fires, but am not in any other way connected to any manufacturer.

 

[EthanTrod]

I would be nice if people actually learned the facts of how these appliances work. There is little or no understanding of the technology and it is amazing how many gas fitters there are who do not bother reading the manufacturers instructions.

The fires have no flue but have very low emissions. As long as the gas pressure is correct, the room size is big enough and the correct air vent is fitted the fires are very safe. What I have found is that most problems like - sooting, marking walls, shutting down etc are all caused by the fire not been fitted properly in the first place.

I have recently heard of installations where a 20mb appliance has been left with only 12mb at the inlet and no air vent was fitted "as the room was bigger than the minimum specified". Both of these installations are not in line with the manufacturers instructions but lets just trash the appliance design instead. Low or high gas pressure causes changes in the emissions, heat output and flame quality. No air vent or the wrong size means no fresh air so the fire shuts off unexpectedly.

As a person who has designed a Flueless Gas Fire I know the lengths that need to be gone to get a CE approval for this type of appliance. These are not just given out if the fire looks nice. There are vast number of test criteria that must be met. To manufacture the fires the factory must also be audited by CE. The current batch of flueless gas fires have an ODS unit which will shut the fire down well before there is a problem. The most important thing when fitted a flueless gas fire is - read the instructions, following them to the letter and do not cut corners.

Again it comes down to knowledge. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of people willing to learn the facts and the rest follow the old wives.

 

[mysteryman]

A burner using the oxygen from the room, and putting carbon dioxide and water vapour plus traces of other products into the room?

Not for me, thanks!

 

[Corgigrouch]

Ethan. You are of course right and what you say works well in a test lab... What you have failed to factor in is idiot customers... As soon as the weather turns and we have a bit of a breeze then out comes the cardboard and sellotape to block off that annoying draught from the vent... They did it with open vented boilers now they do it with flueless fires. Also try to get them to have them serviced on the dot, or even whilst the fire still works... Go on I challenge you!.

Whenever I turn up to fit a flueless. the first thing I do is mark out the size of the vent.... Then I go and get the core drill. I make sure that the customer knows that they will have a great big hole in the wall.... Don't bother unpacking anything other than the instructions, the fire will be going back

 

[doitall]

Ethan Trod, the manufacturers predominately flog flueless fires in the sheds, aimed at the DIY market, I doubt most would know what it said if they did read it.

The gas pressure is supposed to be factory set and no user adjustment, ask Focal point and the girl that was killed in Wales.

Vent in the wall get blocked by a large dog, furniture being pushed back to the wall, and custards blocking them up.

Sounds like you've found quite a few marking walls, sooting up and shutting down or not, I wonder how many were near death situations

The fires should be what it say on the can, pre-set and no possible way the manufacturer can get it wrong, have you noticed how they wriggle out when they get it wrong.

Why didn't the fire in Wales shut down, Focal Point wouldn't answer the question, in fact they immediately removed all the fires and documentation from the publics eye.

Has your fire got a timer, to say how long it's been switched on, and shuts down every hour.

Whats the lifespan of the cat and what procedure is in place to ensure it doesn't over-run it's use by date.

And why doesn't Gassafe and the HSE publish details for RGI's when things do go wrong, the recent case in Bath is typical. what boiler, what happened, what should RGI's do to prevent another death, etc. Irresponsible both from the manufacturers and the power that grab our money and give nothing back.

 

[DeltaT2]

I would be nice if people actually learned the facts of how these appliances work. There is little or no understanding of the technology and it is amazing how many gas fitters there are who do not bother reading the manufacturers instructions.

The fires have no flue but have very low emissions. As long as the gas pressure is correct, the room size is big enough and the correct air vent is fitted the fires are very safe. What I have found is that most problems like - sooting, marking walls, shutting down etc are all caused by the fire not been fitted properly in the first place.

I have recently heard of installations where a 20mb appliance has been left with only 12mb at the inlet and no air vent was fitted "as the room was bigger than the minimum specified". Both of these installations are not in line with the manufacturers instructions but lets just trash the appliance design instead. Low or high gas pressure causes changes in the emissions, heat output and flame quality. No air vent or the wrong size means no fresh air so the fire shuts off unexpectedly.

As a person who has designed a Flueless Gas Fire I know the lengths that need to be gone to get a CE approval for this type of appliance. These are not just given out if the fire looks nice. There are vast number of test criteria that must be met. To manufacture the fires the factory must also be audited by CE. The current batch of flueless gas fires have an ODS unit which will shut the fire down well before there is a problem. The most important thing when fitted a flueless gas fire is - read the instructions, following them to the letter and do not cut corners.

Again it comes down to knowledge. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of people willing to learn the facts and the rest follow the old wives.

Well, as a designer you should be ashamed to rely on the anyone to ensure your piles of cr.p are safe!! That's like a car designer relying on a Garage or Dealership ensuring the brakes are fitted on a car!!!???

C'mon?? You can sleep at night with only a ODS as a safety feature??!!

BAN ALL FLUELESS GAS FIRES!!!!

 

[DeltaT2]

So are Burley flueless gas fires available in the USA or not DeltaT2.

I still say they are not. but then I like to be proved wrong, or not.

Sorry DIA, I don't know or care. The smaller the market for these death boxes the better.

 

[doitall]

So are Burley flueless gas fires available in the USA or not DeltaT2.

I still say they are not. but then I like to be proved wrong, or not.

Sorry DIA, I don't know or care. The smaller the market for these death boxes the better.

Did you know the black Rothy gas bottles are banned in Canada.

 

[DeltaT2]

So are Burley flueless gas fires available in the USA or not DeltaT2.

I still say they are not. but then I like to be proved wrong, or not.

Sorry DIA, I don't know or care. The smaller the market for these death boxes the better.

Did you know the black Rothy gas bottles are banned in Canada.

Are they filled with Propane DIA?

 

[peterperfection]

Burley fires are now made in the USA that's why I had to wait 6 weeks for parts

Actually, they are made in Oakham, Rutland!

Another line of nonsense regarding Fluless fires, which happen to have the best safety record of ANY gas appliance category. They are not approved in ONE American state, but are widely used in all of the others.

Peter Perception: There was a technichal issue with the remote controls set up on the Perception over the winter. The units were redesigned, and they did take a long while for them to come through. Was yours a remote?

Thanks Fireman,
No- remote control ordered for the fire.
However- last night I emailed burley regarding the delay and received a reply this morning .
They told me they had been let down by their supplier and have switched to another supplier and it's taking longer than they thought for the new supplier to set up the new tooling !!. Hence the delay.

Thanks for your balanced view of flueless fires -it's refreshing.

Regarding comments from the 'old school' gang of plumbers- who have always found it hard to accept change --it's about time they moved with the times and traded in their old rusty spanners and well worn stretched wallets -or they may just find themselves 'out on a limb' very soon .

They had the same views when plastic pipes and fittings were introduced -but- I bet lots of them use plastic now !!.
NO monopoly on plastic- even a monkey cant go wrong .

 

[peterperfection]

I would not have one of these in my house.

Well I would and would have a Burley Perception Flueless gas fire in right now- if the one I ordered (and paid for) almost 2 months ago had not had the delivery cancelled 4 times because Burley can not get the parts to assemble it .
Where on earth do they get the parts from ? China ?.

Did you know Flueless fires are banned in Canada, and Burley flueless fires are not sold anywhere in the USA.

Yes I did know about Canada--lots of things are banned there .
I'd bet not many are sold in Japan, Vietnam, outer mongolia or Thailand also .
Regarding Burley fires not being sold in USA it's probably due to cheaper usa made fires there . Bit like Corvettes really cheap in USA but by the time they get to Uk and import duty is stuck on- they become expensive- that's why not many are seen here .
Anyway- it's a different kind of gas in USA.

Typical hairy ar.ed Builder...............'it's a different kind of gas in USA'.............

I e-mailed this thread to my mate from New Jersey, he works in the Oil & Gas industry & he also said 'he pis.ed his pants' reading Pete's enlightened input to this thread...........

Flueless gas fires, wouldn't fit one in a million years. Lethal things!!

Well Mr Plumber -- for your information- my hairy ar$e is professionally done back crack and sack- all smooth .
I guess you do yours with your old blowlamp and scorch the outer areas ? Just like you probably scorch skirting boards !!

 

[DeltaT2]

I would not have one of these in my house.

Well I would and would have a Burley Perception Flueless gas fire in right now- if the one I ordered (and paid for) almost 2 months ago had not had the delivery cancelled 4 times because Burley can not get the parts to assemble it .
Where on earth do they get the parts from ? China ?.

Did you know Flueless fires are banned in Canada, and Burley flueless fires are not sold anywhere in the USA.

Yes I did know about Canada--lots of things are banned there .
I'd bet not many are sold in Japan, Vietnam, outer mongolia or Thailand also .
Regarding Burley fires not being sold in USA it's probably due to cheaper usa made fires there . Bit like Corvettes really cheap in USA but by the time they get to Uk and import duty is stuck on- they become expensive- that's why not many are seen here .
Anyway- it's a different kind of gas in USA.

Typical hairy ar.ed Builder...............'it's a different kind of gas in USA'.............

I e-mailed this thread to my mate from New Jersey, he works in the Oil & Gas industry & he also said 'he pis.ed his pants' reading Pete's enlightened input to this thread...........

Flueless gas fires, wouldn't fit one in a million years. Lethal things!!

Well Mr Plumber -- for your information- my hairy ar$e is professionally done back crack and sack- all smooth .
I guess you do yours with your old blowlamp and scorch the outer areas ? Just like you probably scorch skirting boards !!

Pllllease!!!.............You're addressing Sir Richard Puller, show some respect for someone that lives on a higher intellectual plain than a common Builder!! As the company CEO it's some time since I scorched a skirting board or indeed handled a 'blow lamp'??!!! As for your personal hygiene, far too much information, I'm starting to feel quite sick.

As for your gas fire, I'd hate for you to meet with an early demise - even though you are clearly well down the evolutionary scale.

 

[doitall]

No- remote control ordered for the fire.
However- last night I emailed burley regarding the delay and received a reply this morning .
They told me they had been let down by their supplier and have switched to another supplier and it's taking longer than they thought for the new supplier to set up the new tooling !!. Hence the delay.

Thanks for your balanced view of flueless fires -it's refreshing.

and you believed them.

Let us have your address so we can send you the Darwin award.

[/quote]