flueless gas fire.

[mattysupra]

Hi, i had a flueless gas fire installed a few years ago.

Been reading some posts on here and they mention about the CAT wearing out?


So how do you know when they need replacing? The day i get a headache and hopefully wake up after going to sleep?

Im a bit worried now at the dangers of this fire. If they are so dangerous then how come they still sell them in teh u.k, plus i thought it was a new thing!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

They still sell them because its legal to do so. However, finding someone to fit and/or service them is a different ballgame. BG wont touch them and I dont think many on here are fans of them. Personally i'd take it out, from what i've read I wouldnt trust it.

 

[mattysupra]

They still sell them because its legal to do so. However, finding someone to fit and/or service them is a different ballgame. BG wont touch them and I dont think many on here are fans of them. Personally i'd take it out, from what i've read I wouldnt trust it.

Im thinking the same! but how do i know when the CAT needs replacing?

And just how much of a service does it need? A vaccum maybe? what else is there to service?

Worsed thing is that the flue got blocked off as i was recommended the flueless fire.


Another question tho, what about a gas cooker? That dont have a flue, and the cooker has been on pretty much all day long. Where does the fumes go off that?

 

[doitall]

A cooker is supposed to have ventilation.

The fire is good for 10 years or 5000 hours which evers the sooner, and thats why they're a ticking time bomb.

Who knows how long they've been used and who's counting, so one day, hows your luck.

 

[mattysupra]

A cooker is supposed to have ventilation.

The fire is good for 10 years or 5000 hours which evers the sooner, and thats why they're a ticking time bomb.

Who knows how long they've been used and who's counting, so one day, hows your luck.

Surely if they was to sell the fire they should have a counter on them to log up the hours of use. Not hard to fit one that is powered by the gas flow!


So going back to the cooker or even my fire with venterlation!

So what happens in houses that have double glazing fitted and sealed flooring and maybe draft excluders around the doors. Basically making a sealed room?

Should other trades be educated in the fact that there should be venterlation?



For instance, lets say you fitted my fire. I then get the above additions carried out in my house or the room the fire is in. The other trades are putting me in danger but not knowing as they are installing to there standards!

 

[mattysupra]

A cooker is supposed to have ventilation.

The fire is good for 10 years or 5000 hours which evers the sooner, and thats why they're a ticking time bomb.

Who knows how long they've been used and who's counting, so one day, hows your luck.

What happens if you go over the 5000 hrs?

 

[doitall]

A cooker is supposed to have ventilation.

The fire is good for 10 years or 5000 hours which evers the sooner, and thats why they're a ticking time bomb.

Who knows how long they've been used and who's counting, so one day, hows your luck.

What happens if you go over the 5000 hrs?

There's no guarantee you'll wake up.

 

[transam]

Burley fires have never had to replace a catalytic convertor , a cat is also not a safety device , there are flueless gas fires available that do not require or use catalytic convertors !

burley gas fires are designed to fail safe with the cat disabled !
Millionjs of flue less gas fires have been sold & installed world wide , there has only been 1 recorded fatalaty or incident !
There have been at least 7 serious co incidents with condensing boilers in the UK , & numerouus with flued appliances !!

 

[mattysupra]

Burley fires have never had to replace a catalytic convertor , a cat is also not a safety device , there are flueless gas fires available that do not require or use catalytic convertors !

burley gas fires are designed to fail safe with the cat disabled !
Millionjs of flue less gas fires have been sold & installed world wide , there has only been 1 recorded fatalaty or incident !
There have been at least 7 serious co incidents with condensing boilers in the UK , & numerouus with flued appliances !!

I understand that if the air v fuel ratio is correct then there is no emmisions to worry about, but shutting a door or a blocked air vent can upset this balance

For instance your boiler flue could come back into your house without issues!

But we all know that it dont take much to upset the 'perfect' burn ratio and will could turn deadly.



So anyway, i cant see any sensors on my fire that would know the Air fuel ratio to shut it down?

Do boilers even have a AF ratio sensor to monitor or the emissions? ?

 

[transam]

There should be an asd device , air sampling device ?? sometimes referred to as an osd , oxygen depletion device ? which will shut the fire down if the oxygen level falls by approx 1.5 %


The recorded fatality that occured in the uk with a flueless gas fire (not a Burley ) was a result of a fire being over gassed by approx 60% , the rgi was jailed!
After an extensive investigation by the HSE , it could not be determined exactly why the asd device did not click in , but it was suspected that the air supply vent was to close to the fire & a draught blowing on it stopped it from working , it resulted in a change to the Brtish standards !
Another theory was the nature of the building open plan ? or the fact that the fire was so over gassed (60%) & the build up of co was so quick ??

 

[doitall]

Know what your saying transam and I'm very familiar with the case, and had much correspondence with his brother.

The point I'm making is, that flue-less fires have a shelf live of x hours running or age.

Lets say I fit a flue-less fire, in 10 years no-one has a clue how many hours it's been on, quite apart from the property could have changed hands a few times.

In my opinion an accident waiting to happen, and in a few years, when these things reach maturity, you will be reading about a lot more incidents.

 

[transam]

You make a fair point doitall , the imfo I have states that cats in the usa have shown no deteriation after 30 years use , although they state 30 years of normal use , they do not define what normal means ???

And also to be fair any figures quoted for incidents 1 ?? are recorded incidents , which does not nessarily mean that there have not been more , that have not been recorded or reported , stastics do not nessarily show the complete picture or truth ??

I have installed a few flue less fires in the past about 6 I think ?? & I don't mind saying that a thread started on here a while back that I got involved in that had me seriously concerned , very worried in fact At one time it looked as if I was the only one installing them ?I was looking for my pass port untill snugib came to the rescue ( sort of safety in numbers mentality ) eventually the MD from Burley came on !!
Anyway I am comfortable with flue less now !

 

[expertgasman]

The point I'm making is, that flue-less fires have a shelf live of x hours running or age.

Lets say I fit a flue-less fire, in 10 years no-one has a clue how many hours it's been on, quite apart from the property could have changed hands a few times.

In my opinion an accident waiting to happen, and in a few years, when these things reach maturity, you will be reading about a lot more incidents.[/quote]

Absolute nonsense. Try reading some proper literature and the facts about the CAT.

I understand that if the air v fuel ratio is correct then there is no emmisions to worry about, but shutting a door or a blocked air vent can upset this balance

Mattysupra, I've just been reading ypur nonsense thread about you writing a whole website and us providing all the details. The above shows your limited knowledge, and the dangers of writing about stuff of which you have no clue.
The vent on a flueless fire is NOT for combustion purposes, but to dilute the POC's. A flueless fire consumes at most 3.5Kw. The reason that a normal fire does not require ventilation below 7Kw, is because it is impossibe to draught proof a room suficiently to prevent ingress of enough air to support the combustion of 7Kw of gas. I am aware that this is being reviewed in very new builds, as construction teqniques have massively changed.

Flueless fires have possibly he best safety record of any category of gas appliance, although I can understand folk being concerned about the air quality, rather than the CO issue.

A cooker is supposed to have ventilation. Another guy demonstrating limited knowledge. A cooker require an openable window, not a vent, subject to room sizes.

 

[doitall]

And whats to stop the dog plonking itself in front of the vent or a chair being pushed back and blocking it, quite apart from the possibility of snow blocking it.

The other day the driving snow was as least 2feet up against the wall, and a few years back it was nearly 5feet deep down the drum.

 

[expertgasman]

And whats to stop the dog plonking itself in front of the vent or a chair being pushed back and blocking it, quite apart from the possibility of snow blocking it.

The other day the driving snow was as least 2feet up against the wall, and a few years back it was nearly 5feet deep down the drum.

You still wouldn't get CO, but over time the air quality may be effected.

But the CO argument would stop you fitting ANY open flue (or fluless )appliances