help needed with bathroom light

[terryshand]

Looks like all the wires are at the one point to stay! Is there enough room behind the fitting to fit some sort of enclosure? I personally don't like having masses of wires all in one place.
quote]

No me too, it scared the @@@@ out of me when I took the lid off and my confidence is lacking a bit to start ripping stuff out when its that full.
when we do the bathroom the light will be changed and the light we are planning to put up is 400mm square so Ithink a hole will be ok to rearrange this mess.
What I was trying to do today was disconnect the new stuf so it didnt have to run all night.

 

[Spark123]

I don't like the mix of twin and earth with twin only, 3c&e with 3c only.
Let's face it, if any tom dick or harry has been let loose with the electrics anything could have happened!
I'm still thinking yellow isn't meant to be earth on a 2 way lighting circuit however I'm beginning to think it might be an idea to cut the losses and call in an electrician, then listen to him breathe in heavily.
Each heavy breath costs about £100

 

[terryshand]

I don't like the mix of twin and earth with twin only, 3c&e with 3c only.
Let's face it, if any tom dick or harry has been let loose with the electrics anything could have happened!
I'm still thinking yellow isn't meant to be earth on a 2 way lighting circuit however I'm beginning to think it might be an idea to cut the losses and call in an electrician, then listen to him breathe in heavily.
Each heavy breath costs about £100

Seems its all got an earth wire but most are not used. It looks like I need to get a new builder to finish all the work thats been started so will get it all sorted properly. I was trying for a quick fix to get me through the next few days.
We have had the house for only 6 months and it came with a recent test cert and some recommendationssuch as changing old fuse box and old /tatty switches and sockets even though they passed the tests. I'm changing the fittings as we decorate the rooms and till now was totally happy with everything I found. This fitting has been the exception to the rule and I just reckon its been 'got at' and several times. Even now I think its probably not as bad to put right as it looks but it may have too many wires for me
Thanks again chaps

 

[SUNRAY]

My 10p is on that one of the twin and earths is a switch wire and is connected across L&N, but all those wires at one point is a nightmare!
You need to start by identifying which cable goes to what. Is there access from above in a loft?

Yup. Mind you, doesn't explain why it takes out "both trips", which presumably means two MCBs.

I make the guess that this method has been used:-

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/student/peter.green/lamps.png

and as it has picked up circuits on different MCB's. When both switches are at L1 the 2 lives are connected together.

I usually find out when I have isolated a circuit by switching off the MCB
then someone turns a light off....

 

[securespark]

Does that makes both MCB's pop off?

 

[SUNRAY]

Does that makes both MCB's pop off?

If the 2 ceiling roses in :-

http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/student/peter.green/lamps.png

are fed from separate MCB's, ie downstairs and upstairs circuits and both switches are set to L1, then both MCB's are effectively in parallel. If there is then an over current fault ie short cct, anywhere in the building on one of the circuits, both MCB's will pop.
I have had this problem a number of times, to the point where if 2 lighting circuits fail simultaneously it has become my first faultfinding check (as per a very early post in this topic). Also because of it I now isolate all lighting circuits unless I know the installation well.
I have also seen the results of someone trying this method across 2 different phases. For some reason the switch did not survive

 

[securespark]

Sorry. I thought you were implying that just shorting the two lives together would pop the breakers...

 

[SUNRAY]

Sorry. I thought you were implying that just shorting the two lives together would pop the breakers...

Oh no, I will say this system works perfectly until something goes wrong but in my opinion there is a high risk of the inexperienced installer getting it wrong (as in this case) and an even higher risk of later alterations creating a problem where the sparks is not aware of this type of circuit in the system.
I am sure that no one would deliberately wire something that would bring 2 MCB's together unless they did not know what they are doing.

 

[terryshand]

Morning Guys
I struggling to find people to come round as they are busy, so nuch for the recession!

Last night a friend suggested I turn off the fan switch which he seemed to think should be outside the bathroom, Im more confused now shouldnt the fan be on the light switch?

 

[SUNRAY]

Morning Guys
I struggling to find people to come round as they are busy, so nuch for the recession!

Last night a friend suggested I turn off the fan switch which he seemed to think should be outside the bathroom, Im more confused now shouldnt the fan be on the light switch?

Morning Terry
I hope the fan didnt keep you up all night.
Talk about stating the bleeding obvious yes it should be controlled by the light (or shower) or automatic with humidity and yes there should be an additional isolator switch outside of the bathroom, for maintenance etc. I assume your installers did not put this in.

 

[SUNRAY]

Talk about stating the bleeding obvious.

This quote was aimed at myself. This is the problem with trying to resolve things remotely, if I'd been there this should have been the first option to get the fan stopped!!

 

[terryshand]

Where would they have put this extra switch?

 

[Spark123]

I like to see them above the door

 

[SUNRAY]

I would expect it to be above the door, in your case with 2 doors...?

 

[SUNRAY]

I like to see them above the door

Touche