Help sought in stripping an old indoor aircon unit

[Onetap]

Wrong again, what you saw was rapid combustion, not detonation. Look up the definition : A violent expansion in which energy is transmitted outward as a shock wave.

It was a fuel-air explosion, although not a very effective one because the mixture was probably too rich. It was the same as an explosion caused by a domestic gas leak. The military FAEs are effective against buildings because the pressure wave will lift the roof and fold the walls outwards.

Burning usually involves combustion at the interface between the fuel and air and its speed is limited by the rate of air movement bringing in fresh oxygen. Dispersing the fuel into the air (coal dust, flour, gas, vapour, liquid droplets,etc) can cause an explosion but it's still very slow compared to HE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel-air_explosive

 

[SimonH2]

"i dont have anything modern " you obviously have a computer iphone whatever

Ah, another one who wants to show publicly that they can't read/comprehend simple things. In the context in which it was written, it is correct to say I don't have a modern car, and in fact if you go and look you will see that the words I wrote were "I don't 'do' modern cars". So I'll put that one down to deliberate misquoting to try and score a point where there is nothing to be scored.

rereading as you were responsible for air con unit where you worked surely you would have had your own filling tube and would not need to get one from friendly air con engineer

Being responsible for doesn't mean the same thing as actually doing the work personally. Sometimes it's more cost effective to "buy in" the man with the tools than to tool up yourself - doesn't mean you don't know how to do it yourself. In the same way, I have my tyres fitted by someone with the machinery - it's more cost effective than owning my own tyre fitting and balancing machines.

would also be really interested you seem to be a man who likes to do the right thing so just wondering if you would be willing to inform your insurance company what you have regassed your a/c with and please post their comment for us all to see this would be the ultimate in proving you are correct in thinking it would have no effect on your insurance cover

Well I would if I still had a car with A/C - yes, I do miss having A/C !
Based on past experience (and bear in mind I've hung cylinders to hold about 100l of propane under the car, and something similar on the previous one that did have the A/C), my expectation would be to get no reply at all. What would you expect in reply to "R12 is no longer available (banned CFC), I've filled will R290 which is an alternative with similar properties" ?


It's interesting that while people have been arguing against the unreasonable risk of using R290, other than it being banned there seems to be no objection to using R12 or R22 (according to the system requirements). The MSDSs for those two make interesting reading, particularly the health risks sections.

It was a fuel-air explosion ...

If that's what you want to believe, I'm not going to try and fix that.

 

[Onetap]

It was a fuel-air explosion ...

If that's what you want to believe, I'm not going to try and fix that.

There was fuel and there was air. It wasn't burning, as we know it.
It ticks all the boxes for a very fast bangy-type exothermic chemical reaction thingy.
What would you call it, if not an explosion?

 

[peekay53]

you like to think you are so superior well reality check your not in your post about being semi responsible for a/c unit you were pretty through in cleaning techniques for someone who was semi responsible and as soon as insurance was mentioned in your next post you no longer drive a car with air con you my superior friend are as full of air as a bouncy castle and no where as useful how many plumbing qualifications do you actually hold.
I think as mentioned you google anything you think will help you appear knowledgeable i cant be bothered with dangerous fools like you who justify stupidity with comments like i read it in an article from the university of blah blah blah

 

[SimonH2]

Tempting as it is to ignore people who seem to have forgotten completely what punctuation and capitals are for ...

I did not "suddenly no longer have the car as soon as insurance was mentioned", that was mentioned some time ago.

And still no explanation of why, given that HCs are so dangerous, the video shows the car full of propane not igniting until a match is lit. Could it be that, in spite of what Hollywood educates people with, things don't "just go boom" ?

Quite frankly, you in particular with your latest insults/attacks, and Corgigrouch seem to sum up Onetap's earlier comment. Far from presenting a coherent argument, all you seem to be able to do is demonstrate an inability to accept that ... just perhaps ... people might want to think for themselves. Are you scared that if people realise that A/C isn't some special magic, your business will be in danger - or at least your ability to rip off the innocent ?

Presumably you justify what you do (do you do A/C ? if so then you are working with dangerous systems) by "i read it in an article from the trade mag of blah blah blah".

You may well be a nice person to speak to face to face, but your attitude here is frankly "quite bad". Intolerant, incapable of reading and comprehending (or else fond of deliberately lying about what others have written*), and in your last post incapable of writing a short piece with sufficient punctuation to make it comprehensible.


* say what I see - you either failed to comprehend basic English, or you chose to misrepresent what I'd written. I'll leave others to make their own mind up which.

 

[Aulus]

Sorry to butt in - OP here. Daikin sent me a diagram - coil seems to need removing or at least levering out of way - either way I risk causing a leak so will leave to experts. If I can find one London!

 

[peekay53]

i really would like to know why my post s were removed i was not abusive
and feel as if this simon has spit out his dummy and go running to mods if i was abusive i could understand this but not for disagreeing with this english teacher

peekay53

we all make mistakes thats why they put rubbers on pencils

 

[DeltaT2]

Tempting as it is to ignore people who seem to have forgotten completely what punctuation and capitals are for ...

I did not "suddenly no longer have the car as soon as insurance was mentioned", that was mentioned some time ago.

And still no explanation of why, given that HCs are so dangerous, the video shows the car full of propane not igniting until a match is lit. Could it be that, in spite of what Hollywood educates people with, things don't "just go boom" ?

Quite frankly, you in particular with your latest insults/attacks, and Corgigrouch seem to sum up Onetap's earlier comment. Far from presenting a coherent argument, all you seem to be able to do is demonstrate an inability to accept that ... just perhaps ... people might want to think for themselves. Are you scared that if people realise that A/C isn't some special magic, your business will be in danger - or at least your ability to rip off the innocent ?

Presumably you justify what you do (do you do A/C ? if so then you are working with dangerous systems) by "i read it in an article from the trade mag of blah blah blah".

You may well be a nice person to speak to face to face, but your attitude here is frankly "quite bad". Intolerant, incapable of reading and comprehending (or else fond of deliberately lying about what others have written*), and in your last post incapable of writing a short piece with sufficient punctuation to make it comprehensible.


* say what I see - you either failed to comprehend basic English, or you chose to misrepresent what I'd written. I'll leave others to make their own mind up which.

SimonH2 = Perfect

 

[r.bartlett]

Sorry to butt in - OP here. Daikin sent me a diagram - coil seems to need removing or at least levering out of way - either way I risk causing a leak so will leave to experts. If I can find one London!

R22 is still freely available, I have bought and used over 150kg this year for one particular blue chip client who isn't interested in replacing his exisiting 1999 kit

Stripping these units is fiddly but certainly not impossible. Once you get the knack it's a easy task. Sadly each manufacturer has it own version of how these thing should go together/come apart so some are harder than others.

 

[r.bartlett]

Update - they had a proper engineer in to have a look. He advises unit can't be cleaned and as it uses R22 it's banned anyway so they must have new units.

So one more (perhaps dumb) question. Is it possible to remove R22 & replace with R410 in such an old unit?

No R410a runs at approx 50% higher pressures. The unit will not work. Well it will but it will go bang pdq.

Daikin do a VRV outdoor unit which works with old R22 indoor kit but has a deregulator in the outdoor unit to reduce the working pressures back to R22 levels..Not suitable for this job of course

You can remove the indoor/outdoor and use the existing pipe/cable drain (subject to site survey) which reduces the install cost

 

[r.bartlett]

Tempting as it is to ignore people who seem to have forgotten completely what punctuation and capitals are for ...

I did not "suddenly no longer have the car as soon as insurance was mentioned", that was mentioned some time ago.

And still no explanation of why, given that HCs are so dangerous, the video shows the car full of propane not igniting until a match is lit. Could it be that, in spite of what Hollywood educates people with, things don't "just go boom" ?

Quite frankly, you in particular with your latest insults/attacks, and Corgigrouch seem to sum up Onetap's earlier comment. Far from presenting a coherent argument, all you seem to be able to do is demonstrate an inability to accept that ... just perhaps ... people might want to think for themselves. Are you scared that if people realise that A/C isn't some special magic, your business will be in danger - or at least your ability to rip off the innocent ?

Presumably you justify what you do (do you do A/C ? if so then you are working with dangerous systems) by "i read it in an article from the trade mag of blah blah blah".

You may well be a nice person to speak to face to face, but your attitude here is frankly "quite bad". Intolerant, incapable of reading and comprehending (or else fond of deliberately lying about what others have written*), and in your last post incapable of writing a short piece with sufficient punctuation to make it comprehensible.


* say what I see - you either failed to comprehend basic English, or you chose to misrepresent what I'd written. I'll leave others to make their own mind up which.

There have been several cases of HC causing fridges to explode

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...riously-exploded-turning-house-bomb-site.html

I myself was due to attend the 2k Sydney olympics as an on site fridge engineer for the company who supplied all the catering facilities. It was to be a HC site so i was put on the CARE course. The only thing they were concerned about was leaks and potential explosions. Of course as all trainers do over egg the dangers but they stressed they were real and safety shouldn't be treated lightly.
Sadly they bulked at the total 2 month cost and got a local guy trained up instead. Dammit

there was a famous incident of an AU engineer being badly hurt when he was woking on a bar cooler which blew up. venting R600a in a confined space.

Digress:
AU has lost a couple of engineers recently. One resulted in the world wide recall of all MAPP gas cylinders

http://www.acr-news.com/news/news.asp?id=2696&title=Two+engineers+die+in+separate+van+explosions