Hive installation multizone question

[mambo1701]

Hi all

Have a question in hive multi zone I stallation

I am replacing

Danfoss TP9000 Programmer
Danfoss TP5000SI
Danfoss TS2 Sensor

I have 2 zones upstairs and downstairs

Downstairs was straightforward as the Danfoss TS2 Sensor linked directly to the Danfoss TP9000 Programmer, so all I needed to do was disconnect it and replicate all the other wires in the hive and it works perfectly

However the second zone uses the Danfoss TP5000SI and there is no power connected, so I therefore have no power for the hive multi zone reviever

Question is where should I get the power from? Will this have to be routed from the boiler control box? Or can this run off a mains or lighting circuit? And I presume I will need a 3 amp spur switch like the main unit?

Many thanks in advance

 

[CBW]

Can you do it in the same area as the wiring center, taking power from there? I advise against a lighting circuit, as all wiring for a heating system should come from the same source.

 

[mambo1701]

Ok many thanks, I think I’ll send the hive back, all the wires are hidden I’ve got little chance of routing a power wire from the downstairs control box attached to the water tank to the upstairs bedroom where the second battery operated controller is without knocking holes in walls

Can I ask can you recommend a replacement for the

Danfoss TP9000 Programmer (mains)
Danfoss TP5000SI (battery)?

The main goal is I wanted something with a backlit screen as it’s impossible to see the displays on both withought a torch and it’s annoying, they are also a pain to change the programming

 

[CBW]

You could still use Hive but maybe place the two together near the wiring center. Failing that, maybe look at Tado or Wiser?

 

[mambo1701]

Thank you

 

[gazfen]

Or buy a hive wired stat off eBay, no power required. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30353617...w-QAnO7RlO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[RandomGrinch]

...or gently pull out some more cable from behind the TP5000 and investigate - many new builds with dual zone controls, use 3 core (with brown, grey and black wires) and earth cables to connect the thermostats.
This leaves another (possibly hidden) wire, that can be used as a neutral, when connected up properly at the wiring centre.
If you can post any pictures from behind the TP5000 and your wiring centre, we may be able to advise further.

 

[mambo1701]

Hi thanks for the reply, looks like it’s a 4 core, earth black brown grey. Pics attached

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi thanks for the reply, looks like it’s a 4 core, earth black brown grey. Pics attached

Great, so the Hive can be installed there, without having to run a new cable.
However, we still need to find the other end of that 3 core and earth cable in the wiring centre - the black wire can then be connected to a neutral terminal.

 

[mambo1701]

Great thanks so shoudl
I use the brown for live, black for neutral and earth and grey for the other two, once if foi g them in the control box

 

[RandomGrinch]

Great thanks so shoudl
I use the brown for live, black for neutral and earth and grey for the other two, once if foi g them in the control box

Not quite.
Once the black is connected to N in the wiring centre:
Black to N on the Hive
Brown to L
Green/Yellow to earth
Grey to Heating On (terminal 3)
And add a short link wire between L and COM (terminal 1)

Once you've found your wiring centre, post a pic and we should hopefully be able to help further.

 

[ericmark]

Maybe I am missing some thing? But why does it need two thermostats/hubs? There are two basic methods to split a home into zones, one is hard wired zone valves, the other is the thermostatic radiator valve (TRV) with a motorised head, both are motorised valves, but the TRV type is analogue so best suited for a modulating boiler, where the hard wired is simple on or off.

There are cases to have both, I have a hard wired zone valve to turn off the granny flat under the main house, but in the main once the TRV is motorised there is no point in zone valves.

The whole idea of Hive, EvoHome, Wiser, etc, is the motorised TRV sends a signal to the thermostat/hub to tell it when the boiler needs to run, so there is no need to have any hard wired zone valves, the battery powered TRV's mean each room is it's own zone.

I have used cheap TRV heads, in most rooms, one shown only cost me £15 each in 2019 when I got them, and the idea of only fitting linked TRV heads in key rooms does save a lot of money. But in the main both hard wired zone valves can be linked together so one thermostat/hub works whole house. This then allows things like using a bedroom as an office, or sending kids to a bedroom to do home work, and having just one upstairs room turned on.

Also allows a sequential start, so for example first kitchen, then dinning room, then living room, finally bedrooms so the rooms required heat up faster i.e. have a shorter recovery time.

I will admit this TRV has the option of geofencing, however it has not been very good, I have three makes of motorised TRV heads, and they are different in the way they work, the Kasa is the best one that I have, not tried using that one with geofencing, but the Energenie one has anti-hysteresis software which is really OTT, so set to 20ºC at 7 am and it was 11 am before it got there, so at 7 am set to 22ºC then at 8 am back to 20ºC and room at 20ºC at 8 am, this means geofencing does not really work with them.

Not used Hive TRV heads, I have seen how the Hive wall thermostat/hub has a problem in that it will not accept a 'demand for heat' once it reaches 22ºC, so needs to be in a room normally kept cool. I note you can get a Wiser thermostat/hub designed to work two zones and DHW plus using TRV heads, and can connect to boiler using OpenTherm, so you can get thermostat/hubs designed for two zones, but still the question is why have two zones which are then sub divided into more zones, it does not make sense in most cases.

 

[mambo1701]

Ah thank you. See attached

Not quite.
Once the black is connected to N in the wiring centre:
Black to N on the Hive
Brown to L
Green/Yellow to earth
Grey to Heating On (terminal 3)
And add a short link wire between L and COM (terminal 1)

Once you've found your wiring centre, post a pic and we should hopefully be able to help further.

Thought u sent this yesterday but it didn’t post

 

[mambo1701]

Maybe I am missing some thing? But why does it need two thermostats/hubs? There are two basic methods to split a home into zones, one is hard wired zone valves, View attachment 337148the other is the thermostatic radiator valve (TRV) View attachment 337149 with a motorised head, both are motorised valves, but the TRV type is analogue so best suited for a modulating boiler, where the hard wired is simple on or off.

There are cases to have both, I have a hard wired zone valve to turn off the granny flat under the main house, but in the main once the TRV is motorised there is no point in zone valves.

The whole idea of Hive, EvoHome, Wiser, etc, is the motorised TRV sends a signal to the thermostat/hub to tell it when the boiler needs to run, so there is no need to have any hard wired zone valves, the battery powered TRV's mean each room is it's own zone.

I have used cheap TRV heads, View attachment 337150 in most rooms, one shown only cost me £15 each in 2019 when I got them, and the idea of only fitting linked TRV heads in key rooms does save a lot of money. But in the main both hard wired zone valves can be linked together so one thermostat/hub works whole house. This then allows things like using a bedroom as an office, or sending kids to a bedroom to do home work, and having just one upstairs room turned on.

Also allows a sequential start, so for example first kitchen, then dinning room, then living room, finally bedrooms so the rooms required heat up faster i.e. have a shorter recovery time.

I will admit this TRV View attachment 337149 has the option of geofencing, however it has not been very good, I have three makes of motorised TRV heads, and they are different in the way they work, the Kasa is the best one that I have, not tried using that one with geofencing, but the Energenie one has anti-hysteresis software which is really OTT, so set to 20ºC at 7 am and it was 11 am before it got there, so at 7 am set to 22ºC then at 8 am back to 20ºC and room at 20ºC at 8 am, this means geofencing does not really work with them.

Not used Hive TRV heads, I have seen how the Hive wall thermostat/hub has a problem in that it will not accept a 'demand for heat' once it reaches 22ºC, so needs to be in a room normally kept cool. I note you can get a Wiser thermostat/hub designed to work two zones and DHW plus using TRV heads, and can connect to boiler using OpenTherm, so you can get thermostat/hubs designed for two zones, but still the question is why have two zones which are then sub divided into more zones, it does not make sense in most cases.

I was replicating the current setup, I have 2 control boxes and one separate thermostat downstairs, if I want heat upstairs I need to use the upstairs control unit and downstairs the one downstairs, so I’m guessing the upstairs control unit also doubles as a thermostat, both are awkward to use and have tiny displays and are in silly positions. Hence I was looking at something like a hive but came across the problem with no power to the upstairs control unit, it’s hard wired to the control box but has no power and runs off batteries

 

[RandomGrinch]

Ah thank you. See attached

Thought u sent this yesterday but it didn’t post

Does the black wire coming from this 3 core and earth cable....

...enter the green/yellow sleeving and connect to one of the earth terminals?