How much!!

[Sureitsoff?]

Do you think they will sell many at this price?

Mk 1186 Whi 6A Pendant Set 150mm | eBay

White 150mm pendant set from Logic Plus. Assembly will support a light fitting of up to 3kgs. Incorporates heat resistant lampholder (1170 WHI). Heat resisting PVC insulated and sheathed flexible 0.75mm² two core circular cable complying with BS 6141:1981.

www.ebay.co.uk

same thing in Toolstation is £2.90......

 

[ericmark]

I remember my daughter buying a loo seat from ebay, still had the label on it from Argos, so new where from and original price, I did not fancy plastic so went to B&Q and got a wood one, and then so told me how much she had paid, well over new price.

People just assume ebay is cheap. And don't check prices.

However 559.6.1.5 stipulates 5 kg not 3 kg, so should not really be sold for UK market. I see nothing on the MK spec sheet that gives weight. Although RS also says "This assembly will support a light fitting of up to 3kgs." maybe that's the limit of the cord rather than ceiling rose?

 

[JohnW2]

Do you think they will sell many at this price? ...

Not if they notice that there are a least a couple of other eBay listings at less than half that price - but, of course, not everyone 'shops around'!

.... same thing in Toolstation is £2.90......

Indeed, and other places similar. However, those figures are slightly misleading if one only wants the one item, since the £15.59 eBay price includes p&p. The other two eBay listings I found at my first look were £3.87 and £3.89 (the latter "or Best Offer), but with additional p&p of £4.95 and £3.20 respectively.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

However 559.6.1.5 stipulates 5 kg not 3 kg, so should not really be sold for UK market.

I don't think that BS7671 determines what "should be sold for the UK Market". You would do better looking at relevant product Standards.

I see nothing on the MK spec sheet that gives weight.

That's because you didn't look at the next page, which says:

However, that pendant assembly has a BC/B22 lampholder, and I don't think you would find (m)any things weight more than 3 kg that would 'plug into it'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

My ceiling roses state "Maximum safe working load using hook provided 5Kg" not sure I would want to lift a 5 kg chandelier into place this one is hard enough. For me if not plug in would be impossible. But at £21.85 at toolstation they are not cheap.

 

[JohnW2]

My ceiling roses state "Maximum safe working load using hook provided 5Kg" not sure I would want to lift a 5 kg chandelier into place this one is hard enough. For me if not plug in would be impossible.

I have many of those, but I don't really understand what they say about 'weight'. I'm sure that these (solid brass) things themselves could hold up an awful lot more than 5kg - it's surely its attachment to the ceiling that is the potential 'weak point', isn't it?

Anyway, returning to context, as I said/asked, have you ever seen anything remotely as heavy as that chandelier which is supported only by a B22 'plug'/lamp holder?

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

I remember my daughter buying a loo seat from ebay, still had the label on it from Argos, so new where from and original price, I did not fancy plastic so went to B&Q and got a wood one, and then so told me how much she had paid, well over new price.

People just assume ebay is cheap. And don't check prices.

However 559.6.1.5 stipulates 5 kg not 3 kg, so should not really be sold for UK market. I see nothing on the MK spec sheet that gives weight. Although RS also says "This assembly will support a light fitting of up to 3kgs." maybe that's the limit of the cord rather than ceiling rose?

Unless they have changed in the 18th, the weight limits are as follows:

0.5 is 2 Kg, 0.75 is 3 Kg, 1.0 and higher is 5 Kg.

 

[JohnW2]

Unless they have changed in the 18th, the weight limits are as follows: .. 0.5 is 2 Kg, 0.75 is 3 Kg, 1.0 and higher is 5 Kg.

It's the same in the 18th - but they, of course relate to the maximum recommended weights to be supported by flexible cables of the CSA's in question - nothing to do with whatever they are supported by and, as you suggest, no reason why it has to be 'at least 5 kg)

The 'pendant set' being discussed in this thread has 0.75 mm² flex - so, as you imply BS7671 recommends that it should not support more than 3kg - but certainly doesn't suggest that it "should not be sold for UK market" because it does not have large enough cable to support 5 kg!

Kind Regards, John

 

[conny]

Ultimately the weight limit will depend on the ceiling fixings and how it is attached to the ceiling.
A lot of people will be 'disappointed' if they hang their new light fitting then find it falling off because they didn't secure it correctly.

 

[JohnW2]

Ultimately the weight limit will depend on the ceiling fixings and how it is attached to the ceiling.

Quite so. That's the point I made back in post #6. Eric is talking about the BS7671 recommendations regarding how much weight can be hung on flexible cables of a particular size (and even those don't say anything about there being a 'minimum which is allowed').

However, per what we've both said, whilst I've seen plenty of things that have fallen off ceilings because they weren't attached adequately, I don't think I've ever seen a case where the flex has broken (or even shown any sizes of having been 'over-stressed').

Kind Regards, John

 

[Why Not Indeed]

I come across these apparently absurdly priced items all the time on Amazon and eBay, more than you would expect due to simple human error. I think it's because sellers use tools which "algorithmically" set the prices based on what the competition are doing, and this is the outcome.

 

[JohnW2]

I come across these apparently absurdly priced items all the time on Amazon and eBay, more than you would expect due to simple human error. I think it's because sellers use tools which "algorithmically" set the prices based on what the competition are doing, and this is the outcome.

Maybe. Some of the really ridiculous ones are presumably just 'typos'. However, in terms of the more moderate overpricing, as I implied, when it comes to purchases of single items, people often overlook the fact that very many eBay items come with "free" (i.e. included in the product price) postage - so not as much difference from buying from somewhetre else and paying a few quid for delivery.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Adam_151]

Theres also the the possibily of a failsafe on some websites, I know one computer parts shop that used to show prices as £1,234,567.89 if no price was set in the database, although it doesn't have to be anywhere as extreme as this.

The reason was, there was a case against kodak cameras where the website had accidently assigned a price of £100 as default where no price had been entered, people snapped up (pun intended) these cameras at the bargain price, and when kodak cancelled the orders, folk went to court and it was sucessfully argued that the automated order confirmation email was acceptance of contract on kodaks part. They then had to supply the cameras for the price people paid.

The wording of the confirmation emails on a lot of suppliers changed as well, to read that it does not confirm acceptance of order, but only receipt of order by the automated system and they reserve the right to decline and refund at a later date.

 

[JohnW2]

.... and when kodak cancelled the orders, folk went to court and it was sucessfully argued that the automated order confirmation email was acceptance of contract on kodaks part. They then had to supply the cameras for the price people paid.
The wording of the confirmation emails on a lot of suppliers changed as well, to read that it does not confirm acceptance of order, but only receipt of order by the automated system and they reserve the right to decline and refund at a later date.

Some do now do that with their initial (presumably 'automated') response bring just a 'confirmation of receipt of the order'. However, that is usually fairly quickly followed (usually within 24h at most) by a 'confirmation of acceptance of order' message - and the impression I get is that that delay is primarily to facilitate checking of stock situations and of the satisfactory receipt of payments.

There presumably must be a point in the transaction, both in law and in terms of common sense, when the supplier will be deemed to have 'irrevocably accepted' an order, even if (from the supplier's point-of-view) they probably "shouldn't" have done so?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Why Not Indeed]

Sure, but you try being the ***hole who tells the customer that no, they can't have it at that surprisingly low price. It's not worth the aggro and the potential bad publicity. Better to just avoid the "sale" in the first place.