How to sell a boiler

Wikipedia is also in the public domain matey,

Yes but google and other search engines do not write their own "facts", they only link the searcher to the website(s) from whence the document can be obtained.

This drivel is a mixture of the obvious & naivety

How often is the obvious ( based on common sense and basic science ) obscured in training sessions where the naivity of the trainees allows the trainer to convince the trainees that he the trainers is telling the truth and the whole truth about the product they are being trained to install and/or service. It is not just in the training of plumbers to be boiler installers where this less than accurate training happens, car industry, domestic appliances to name but two.

Berny boy

Do you talk this way to deride the person you are talking to.
 
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basically housing association don't give a flying fook what boilers are installed , well there is one PRICE , end of

The discussion was not restricted to equipment being selected for a housing association project.

It included a comparison of the performances of equipment specified for housing associations and the equipment that is best suited for the owner / occupier market so as to offset the pressure from various marketing people.

There is significant difference between those two markets.

Tenants in housing association, social housing other rental accomodation are normally satisified with the basics of heating and hot water and will ( invariably have to ) accept a lower but adequate quality of heating and hot water. Private owner occupiers are less likely to accept that minimum acceptable standard and will want something better. Hence a boiler targetted at the RSL and housing association market will sell well into that market, but that high volume of sales does not make and should not be allowed to infer that that boiler is also the most suitable for the owner occupier market.

Landlords will choose a boiler that has a good reliabity record even if that reliabilty with low cost to the landlord comes at the cost to the tenant of a lower standard of performance.
 
You still haven't actually made a point as usual.

You also show a very poor grasp of the situation in social housing. But thank you for your many kind comments saying the boilers are perfect for the job
 
Performance of all boilers is measured and only boilers which meet band A can be fitted in almost all cases now.

You claim longer warm up times without any proof but fail to take into account the boiler is more efficient on hot water as it condenses which is something that other makes do not.

The new boiler will currently be the most efficient for hot water delivery on the market and has been independently rated at 122% I have a copy of the certificate.

In terms of reliablility there is no difference between the domestic and social housing markets and it's rather sad if you claim there is in order to reinforce some straw argument.

So either prove the boilers are less efficient than others on the market or stop spouting drivel - frankly you've embarrassed yourself enough.
 
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Yes but google and other search engines do not write their own "facts", they only link the searcher to the website(s) from whence the document can be obtained.



How often is the obvious ( based on common sense and basic science ) obscured in training sessions where the naivity of the trainees allows the trainer to convince the trainees that he the trainers is telling the truth and the whole truth about the product they are being trained to install and/or service. It is not just in the training of plumbers to be boiler installers where this less than accurate training happens, car industry, domestic appliances to name but two.
to.

You clearly have never attended any boiler training courses Berny, a bunch of hairy arzed installers with less than sympathetic views on the product, at pains to point out the shortcomings of the trainer & product.
 
You clearly have never attended any boiler training courses Berny, a bunch of hairy arzed installers with less than sympathetic views on the product, at pains to point out the shortcomings of the trainer & product.

I run training courses Dicky and I can tell you the boilers aren't sold to the engineers by the marketing ****.

It's when the fitters pull them to bits, fail to break them and see how simple but fantastically engineered they are they decide to fit them.

Once again thank you Bernard I think this thread has done more to raise The Intergas public profile as opposed to the damage you tried to cause (y)

Btw didn't I hear you had a J&S Reno? And you try to educate others?? :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
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I run training courses Dicky and I can tell you the boilers aren't sold to the engineers by the marketing w@nk.

It's when the fitters pull them to bits, fail to break them and see how simple but fantastically engineered they are they decide to fit them.

Once again thank you Bernard I think this thread has done more to raise The Intergas public profile as opposed to the damage you tried to cause (y)

Btw didn't I hear you had a J&S Reno? And you try to educate others?? :LOL::LOL::LOL:
Razor I have done product presentation courses to board of directors, Merchants and installers, hated when doing them to breakdown engineers that knew their stuff as really had to be on your toes, they can smell shoite from a million miles away, Bennys opinion of what sells a boiler couldnt be any further from the truth
 
Razor I have done product presentation courses to board of directors, Merchants and installers, hated when doing them to breakdown engineers that knew their stuff as really had to be on your toes, they can smell shoite from a million miles away, Bennys opinion of what sells a boiler couldnt be any further from the truth

Yes, we're a very decerning bunch Ian.
 
I'd be interested to learn just how a boiler can acheive 122% efficiency, not a copy of a certificate, just how.

AFAIK if you allow all the sensible heat to be transferred to system plus all the latent heat, impossible I have believed until now, then potential energy contained within the fuel and produced by combustion would equal 100% plus latent heat by condensation of flue byproducts a further 11%, where does the extra come from?

The flue products must be leaving the boiler cooler than the incoming combustion air.

All combis, even SE ones, condense in hot water mode, that's what can rot flues out, what is important, and I am sure it is true with the Intergas is useful condensing on the heat exchanger. The Intergas does, you can tell by the oxidisation patterns. What would be interesting to know would be the quantity of condensate produced on the exchanger under constant conditions, separate to that produced in the flue, from that a calculation could be made on the benefits.

BTW I have asked our tech guys whether there is a similar figure to quantify condensate produced during hot water production on our new boiler which is also claimed to condense in hot water mode. Not sure how this is done but it must be for each manufacturer to claim it.

I don't want this to degenerate into how high can each manufacturer pee up a wall contest and I know it's really a keep Bernard in his place thread but good to know all the same.
 
122%....:eek::eek:...so every 1.22m3 of gas consumed by the interslash the meter will only register 1m3 used??????
Wow...:cool::cool:
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:;)
 
Found this on a Dutch site (via Google Translate):

The Intergas Xtreme has 2 heat exchangers. The 2nd heat exchanger is used to recover heat. This in the back of the boiler at the flue gas outlet. As a result, combustion gases can be further cooled. In addition, the remaining heat is reused to preheat the tap water. This technology requires less energy to bring water to a temperature. This makes it possible to achieve a return of 122%.
 
Found this on a Dutch site (via Google Translate):

The Intergas Xtreme has 2 heat exchangers. The 2nd heat exchanger is used to recover heat. This in the back of the boiler at the flue gas outlet. As a result, combustion gases can be further cooled. In addition, the remaining heat is reused to preheat the tap water. This technology requires less energy to bring water to a temperature. This makes it possible to achieve a return of 122%.
Can you explain how any gas burning appliance can utilise efficiencys above 100%?...or possibly how output rating can exceed input rating?..
Don't be fooled by Net efficiencies.
As has been said by Vulcan , in order to achieve efficiencies in excess of 100% combustion air temp would have to exceed flue gas temp.
122% would be a mathmatical trick aimed @ the gullible.
 

Actually yes Agas

Very tricky wording there. Something that I don't believe any manufacturer has had the casuistry to use.

Efficiency of an engine I believe is the total potential of the fuel entering the engine in relation to the work achieved.

Stick your hand over the flue outlet: if on a day with an ambient air temp of 20 degrees and an incoming cold water temperature of 10 degrees the flue temperature is 10 degrees we can start to talk.
 
Actually yes Agas
My comment was in regards to prior to rule&rulars comment on this page ( Bernard's inane crap tbh) ,software issue , I didn't see as my phone wasn't showing other posts . But now seeing the whole thread I'm now interested in 122% efficiency :confused::rolleyes:
 

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