Installing marble mantle and surround before new gas fire is fitted

[olly330]

Hello all

Need some advice, I have builders that are going to install a marble fireplace surround and a separate unconnected gas safe chap who is installing a focal point Eastleigh high efficiency gas fire. The fire surround is this one;

https://www.fireplacesupermarket.co...MIuIaOj8Ka3AIVJbXtCh3LFQsXEAQYASABEgLBifD_BwE


The fireplace opening is from a previous gas fire that was removed. I have been telling the builders to get the marble fireplace installed in anticipation of the gas guy who is coming next week to install the fire, but the builders reckon the fire needs installing first.... I can't get my head around why, as from my limited knowledge the gas fire is pushed back against the marble back panel, am I correct ?

I want to also ensure they will be installing the surround correctly.
The floor in the room is wooden floorboards, is a sand cement mix ok for the hearth to sit on ?

And what should be used to secure the back panel/pillars together and to the wall, tile adhesive? Any other regulations or safety issues that I should be aware of.

Thanks I'm advance.

 

[sbgasman]

make sure the gas pipe is in place before the marble is fitted,don't use sand and cement as it can leach into the marble,use tile adhesive on the base and back panel,there should be brackets on the legs/mantel

 

[olly330]

make sure the gas pipe is in place before the marble is fitted,don't use sand and cement as it can leach into the marble,use tile adhesive on the base and back panel,there should be brackets on the legs/mantel

Thanks, the gas pipe is already there from the previous fire so I think it will be easy enough for gas fitter to adjust if needs be when he comes to fit fire, I'll make sure it doesn't get blocked in.

So no sand cement at all, even for the hearth ? Should the hearth be needed into tile adhesive too.

Also, are the brackets on legs and mantle pre built into the marble ? Or are they seperate, as I haven't seen any, and wouldn't have a clue of how to attach them to the marble without damaging it.

 

[sbgasman]

no sand and cement for hearth use tile adhhesive,brackets are usually screwed to the bck of the legs,a bit like large picture brackets

 

[durhamplumber]

it says on your link"specifically designed for @@@ electric fires" hope that is not an issue.

 

[Tigercubrider]

my ( Can't remember brand) gas fire had to be inserted into the marble

 

[FiremanT]

Hello all

Need some advice, I have builders that are going to install a marble fireplace surround and a separate unconnected gas safe chap who is installing a focal point Eastleigh high efficiency gas fire. The fire surround is this one;

https://www.fireplacesupermarket.co...MIuIaOj8Ka3AIVJbXtCh3LFQsXEAQYASABEgLBifD_BwE


The fireplace opening is from a previous gas fire that was removed. I have been telling the builders to get the marble fireplace installed in anticipation of the gas guy who is coming next week to install the fire, but the builders reckon the fire needs installing first.... I can't get my head around why, as from my limited knowledge the gas fire is pushed back against the marble back panel, am I correct ?

I want to also ensure they will be installing the surround correctly.
The floor in the room is wooden floorboards, is a sand cement mix ok for the hearth to sit on ?

And what should be used to secure the back panel/pillars together and to the wall, tile adhesive? Any other regulations or safety issues that I should be aware of.

Thanks I'm advance.

it says on your link"specifically designed for @@@ electric fires" hope that is not an issue.

Well spotted, Durham.

OP: You are entering a world of pain.
The builders obviously have no clue. Lets hope they are better with your other work.
The fireplace obviously has to be fitted first.
Is the gas pipe completely in the builders opening?

That hearth appears to have a very square edge, without a chamfer. It will very possibly get chipped before the work is completed.

Most importantly, the heart is 300 mm deep. Which is normally the minimum depth required for a gas fire. But there will be at least 75mm behind the front face of the panel. Therefore a max of 225mm available. The RGI should refuse to fit the fire.

Find an experienced fireplace installer BEFORE making any purchase. Take, and possibly pay for, his advice

 

[olly330]

I had a look today, see pics above. I couldnt see any brackets.

I did check with the fireplace shop and they said it met the regulations in being 300mm deep...

 

[FiremanT]

.

 

[FiremanT]

I had a look today, see pics above. I couldnt see any brackets.

I did check with the fireplace shop and they said it met the regulations in being 300mm deep...

It may just make a difference being a HE. But if it requires a 300mm hearth, which your statement implies that the shop suggests, then the shop is wrong.
Are you certain it is a Focal Point? I could not find an Eastleigh listed. Have you got a link for that?

 

[olly330]

Thanks for your reply FiremanT.
The fire is this one, we bought it from amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01K47SM3K/ref=pe_1909131_77697001_tnp_email_TE_AMZLdp_1
I couldnt find it on the focal point site either, but I think its this one just sold under another name by focal point:
http://www.focalpointfires.co.uk/product/elegance-brass-8/

We ordered the surround separately and just told the shop that its a gas fire and they said as the hearth is 300mm depth that is sufficient, they didnt specifically know which model of fire we had.

 

[FiremanT]

Typically, those fires that do not need a hearth, require to be, IIRC, 100mm of the floor.

Re the fixings.
That mantle looks more like Limestone than marble. Often, the maker will supply a largish Z bracket . This screws to the wall and the opposite leg fits against that block you see stuck to the top of the leg. The leg is generally still loose when the bracket is fitted, so you pack it out until the leg fits nicely against the wall.

TBH, if the wall is not perfect in every way, your builder will probably not do a good job. They are a pig to get everything lined up and secured. Those mantels that come assembled as a full frame are much more superior and easier to fit perfectly.
Leeching is a problem with mortar - some marbles are worse than others. I use to apply PVA to surfaces where I might use mortar.

I would contact the fireplace manufacturer. A lot of them say not to fit HE fires to marble. The heat istoo great, and cracks develop, typically from the top 2 corners of the opening

 

[olly330]

Ok thanks, Im going to have another chat with the gas fitter to ensure its suitable and if he can liase with the builder in doing it correctly.
Which tradesmen would you normally use to fit fireplace surround, is it usually builders or gas fitters?

 

[olly330]

I was googling the regulations and came across this on a few sites :

All open fires, whether you intend on burning solid fuel or gas, need a hearth — unless the manufacturer’s instructions state otherwise. A hearth should extend forwards from the fireplace opening by 300mm and 150mm on either side. These measurements should be taken from either the front of the fireplace opening or, where the fire is recessed into the opening, from the front of the burner


Tell me if I am incorrect, but isn't the hearth going to be projecting forwards 300mm from the opening as it's 300mm deep, hence complying?

Or does the hearth have to project 300mm from the furthest edge of the front face of the fire as I get that the fire itself will have some projection on the hearth

 

[FiremanT]

Ok thanks, Im going to have another chat with the gas fitter to ensure its suitable and if he can liase with the builder in doing it correctly.
Which tradesmen would you normally use to fit fireplace surround, is it usually builders or gas fitters?

IMO, most builders are not capable of a good classic finish. You need an experienced fireplace fitter who will be a gas man.

I take it you have the fire there? Look in the installation manual under "installation site requirements". You will see a dimension for the hearth depth. Do not confuse with fireplace depth. I suspect the minimum depth will be 300mm. Then imagine the hearth against the wall. Then imagine, or measure, the position of the front face of the back panel when properly fitted. What is the distance between the front face position and the edge of the hearth? I think it will be 140mm.