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isolating switches for new kitchen sockets

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by sebastianbawn, 27 May 2018.

  1. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    [​IMG] Hi all,

    I am hoping to have a series of isolating switches in my kitchen as per the image. The difficulty is that the ring circuit cable goes out socket 1 straight through the ceiling and reappears in socket 2, and I dont really want a sparky ripping up carpets and floorboards to re-route it. as I understand they cant spur off socket on to all 3 switches and then to the 1gang sockets, so somehow it would mean rejoining to the ring circuit?

    I assume 20A DP switches would be used?

    [​IMG]

    Any info appreciated
    regards,

    SB
     
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  3. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Just a thought, but what if socket 1 was switched to a 3 grid DP switch, with a single unswitched socket to each switch?

    Also could he spur off the grid switch with a double socket (if he upped it to a 4 grid switch)?

    TIA

    SB
     
  4. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    If nothing on the leg between the original sockets, then:

    upload_2018-5-28_1-1-19.png

    if there is, then:

    upload_2018-5-28_1-8-54.png
     
  5. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Thank you very much, that makes things a lot clearer. I did have another avenue to explore if you wouldnt mind indulging me, which would be this set up. I am guessing if we could have the extra switched socket it would have to be a single so as no chance of overloading the 20A grid switch

    [​IMG]
     
  6. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Yes, you can have the extra socket as a spur - single or double, it doesn't matter - the current won't actually be going through the 20A switches.

    If you have the grid switches then the cables will have to be installed in the recognised 'safe' zones - either vertically or horizontally from the accessories (switches or sockets) - so all three cables will have to drop from the grid switches and then go horizontally to each socket or horizontally from the grid switches and then vertically down to the sockets but that will entail more chasing in areas above the worktop so maybe less convenient.
     
  7. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    The switches are a distraction, in that they are not the issue, you'd have exactly the same problem if you just wanted 3 more sockets, and it is a to-be-expected one - if you have your cables hidden in walls and under floors then walls have to be cut into or floors lifted when you need access to the cables to be able to carry out alterations.

    But although it doesn't affect the problem, do you actually want all of those switches?
     
  8. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Thank you both for the replies. I think the grid switch system will be the most convenient and will give a simple finish. I appreciate all of your comments
     
  9. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Yes, but do you actually want them?

    The point is that you don't have to have isolation switches if you don't want.
     
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  11. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Yes we would like the isolation switches:)
     
  12. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Sorry to ask again but I have read alot online so some clarification would be great!

    The grid switch would not be central on the ring circuit as the circuit runs up and downstairs, would this impact in the case of overloading? Also many people are saying not to use double sockets only single?

    And lastly so I understand, the grid switch can be added into the ring circuit just as a socket can?

    Thanks for any info
    Regards
    Sb
     
  13. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    No. It is no different than the appliances without grid switches.
    To be entirely correct the appliances should not be very near one end of the ring when all on, but they likely won't be.

    Where?

    The extra socket you added makes no difference whether single or double, but
    the appliances should have a single socket each - as you have drawn.
    They will have to anyway, won't they? Otherwise the switches will not control the appliances.

    Yes, but bear in mind that each grid switch will be the same as one socket so it will be like having three sockets next to each other plus there will also be three outgoing cables to the appliances.
    This is a lot of wires in a small area so you will need the deepest back box - 47mm.
     
  14. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Thankyou once again! Yes each appliance will have a single socket, and a double switched socket as a spur. Most the info I read about no double sockets was on the iet forum.

    Thanks I will purchase a 47mm back box. My understanding is that the ring main will enter switch one, then connect to switch 2 by the neutral and live wires only then again from switch 2 to 3 and finally rejoin the ring circuit from ring 3 with earth. The earth's will be looped to the back box and into their corresponding terminals. My dad is an ex electrician so will probably ask him to do the work but would like to get an understanding of it myself

    Regards
    Sb
     
  15. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    Seems trying to cram 6 earth's into a single back box terminal is a bit optimistic lol
     
  16. flameport

    flameport

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    Other, larger terminals are available and would be essential for the described arrangement.

    What you are describing is possible and if you must use such switches and a ring, then it's really the only way.
     
  17. sebastianbawn

    sebastianbawn

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    What do you mean by larger terminals as all back boxes I've seen appear similar? Please could you elaborate so I can get the parts in.thank you
    Sb
     
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