Johnward & VicVapour

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There have been some interesting comments about Gas Engineers & their electrics regarding the ‘law’
On an entirely more practical issue I wonder if I could employ any of you to wire up this bog standard S plan with a 3 pin Cyl stat & wireless programmable no volts timer on a simple OV boiler. All I would ask is that to keep the boiler condensating as much as possible could you wire it so the DHW has max flow rates and that the CH has an independent control for its own lower flow rates.
There are young children in the house so you must ensure that max flow temps never heat the rads up to 80 degrees. The boiler is an upgrade, all the wiring is already in place. You may choose where any component is situated and all the components are Honeywell and it has a 10 way wiring centre.
I have all that is available in the Boiler Mi’s and added the NTC values. Although this is a bog standard boiler (Intergass) it does use 12K NTC rather than the more common 10K NTC.. If it makes life easier feel free to calculate with 10K ntc figures if you prefer.
Being a dum plumber I don’t really understand NTC & relays etc so I need an expert to design it (and notify anyone who may need notifying)
I am not going to do anything complicated like add O/T controls, zoning, underfloor heating Low loss headers Solar or unvented cylinders nor am I going to fit an outside weather compensator or tie it in with any form of ground pump. . It don’t come much easier than this.
If you can show me how to do this I would probably do this on every system boiler I fit. We can move onto Y plan later. All the floor boards are up and you have easy access to any & every component. Luckily this is the flat above Maplins – and they are open 24hr.
I am happy to pay for one hour of intellectual time whilst you design it and perhaps a further hour to wire it at normal rates. Obviously should you need anything from Maplins – add it to my account.
Luckily there is Internet Wifi from Maplins and u have your laptop with you.

To make the drawing simple you may forget the cpc
 
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You chaps spend all this time saying we shouldn't be touching electrics so I am simply trying to see what would happen if we left it to you - the competent persons? Don't really see where the troll bit fits in?
 
There have been some interesting comments about Gas Engineers & their electrics regarding the ‘law’
The point is, surely, that criticism only follows when something has been done badly and contravenes the regulations which one may think the likes of British Gas could do correctly and supply their fitters with more than a socket and see.

Also, should anyone install as per your post above but supply the gas in a leaky 8mm plastic pipe I am sure you would slag them off quite forcefully.
 
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I am not a plumber with a chip on my shoulder at all. I have the utmost respect for other tradesmen - however our two trades blurr into a grey area of which we blurr far more into yours that you do into ours.
We have to be able to do this because experience tells us you lads cant. As good as I am sure you all are at rewires etc etc you don't help us out much when we are confronted with our electrics.
I am not a troll & I don't slag people off or call them silly names but you sparkies need to understand our position. The above request is but a simple one. If you worked for me this would be one of the more simple ones I do on a daily basis. A basic S plan is 40 years old & things have moved on. We dont pinch your work - we are forced to do it because most sparkies wont even attempt it & those that do all to often get it wrong.
Perhaps one of you might attempt a diagram for this? Its not rocket science? I suspect most of you will err to decline because you dont understand heating controls - the very point I am trying to make
 
There have been some interesting comments about Gas Engineers & their electrics regarding the ‘law’
The point is, surely, that criticism only follows when something has been done badly and contravenes the regulations which one may think the likes of British Gas could do correctly and supply their fitters with more than a socket and see.

Also, should anyone install as per your post above but supply the gas in a leaky 8mm plastic pipe I am sure you would slag them off quite forcefully.

I think u r mixing up electrical safety & the ability to actually wire up heating controls? You are correct in what u say about BG. Eon now supply proving units - but testers without fused probes? 95% plumbing electrics is downstream of the installation. In theory as long as earth continuity is checked thats all a plumber needs to check. There is no need for him to do loop impedance tests from a 3 port valve or a room stat?
 
an awkward silence...

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Heating is nothing more than a series of switches. There's noting complicated about it at all.

Unfortunately your post makes no sense what so ever. Maybe that's why you're having trouble finding someone to install stuff for you as you can't explain what you actually want.
 
I am not a plumber with a chip on my shoulder at all. I have the utmost respect for other tradesmen - however our two trades blurr into a grey area of which we blurr far more into yours that you do into ours.
Agreed. Gas Safe qualifications would be another expense and electricians wouldn't normally install boilers and central heating.
We have to be able to do this because experience tells us you lads cant.
Disagreed. Any electrician who 'can't' isn't an electrician.
As good as I am sure you all are at rewires etc etc you don't help us out much when we are confronted with our electrics.
Not exactly sure what you mean here.

Do you mean on the forum? It is a DIY forum. If you are registered/allowed to do the electrics associated with your work then you should know.

If you mean generally and employed an electrician to install the wiring for a central heating system then I'm sure no one would refuse the work.
I am not a troll & I don't slag people off or call them silly names but you sparkies need to understand our position. The above request is but a simple one. If you worked for me this would be one of the more simple ones I do on a daily basis. A basic S plan is 40 years old & things have moved on. We dont pinch your work - we are forced to do it because most sparkies wont even attempt it & those that do all to often get it wrong.
I haven't 'installed' any S plan (or the other) systems but I have been called to repair several so I am not sure of your claim - after all it is just an electrical circuit.
Perhaps one of you might attempt a diagram for this? Its not rocket science? I suspect most of you will err to decline because you dont understand heating controls - the very point I am trying to make
Well, you will say I'm bottling-out but it has taken long enough to type this but adding extra controls to a basic CH wiring system is not difficult.
As you say "It's not rocket science" but rocket science contains electrical circuits.


I am not sure of the purpose of your thread other than to complain that we belittle those who should already know what they are doing in their job or we get upset by people doing their jobs very badly - especially the ones with limitless resources.
 
Heating is nothing more than a series of switches. There's noting complicated about it at all.

Unfortunately your post makes no sense what so ever. Maybe that's why you're having trouble finding someone to install stuff for you as you can't explain what you actually want.

Makes perfect sense to me, he wants to dual flow temperature system. One flow temperature for the boiler to CH and another for the DHW.

The problem with you electric lads is you dont know why we want to do the thing we do so you dont have the background.
 
Heating is nothing more than a series of switches. There's noting complicated about it at all.

Unfortunately your post makes no sense what so ever. Maybe that's why you're having trouble finding someone to install stuff for you as you can't explain what you actually want.

Makes perfect sense to me, he wants to dual flow temperature system. One flow temperature for the boiler to CH and another for the DHW.

The problem with you electric lads is you dont know why we want to do the thing we do so you dont have the background.
Yes that about sums it up. My initial ProQuest was to make it as 'normal' and everyday as it is. Its only an electrical circuit - of course- but a 'non sparky' installer who wishes this, would employ a sparks to do it. My thread is about the problems we face in finding sparks that have found the time to understand how the heating system needs to be controlled to give the results that the client wishes.

I appreciate your comments on the time it takes to type this stuff etc, but those that understand the S plan can draw it in 5 mins. Even forget the Neutrals. But how are u gonna get different flow temps from the same boiler on two different circuits using external controls?
I would like to state here that I am not trying to get 'one up' on anyone but to those who are constantly demanding that electrics are only to be doner by competent sparkies should step up to the plate and lets see how they cope?

If they manage this then perhaps I'll let Dan knock your socks off with some of his stuff. It even raises my eyebrows!
I had to endure two of your fellow forum members trying to belittle him last night. Still lets not go down there as it will no doubt start getting silly.
 
Just to ad a tads more on this layout some kindergartens will require higher temp rads in the staff room, scalding temps to service the DHW tank and rads less tha n43 degrees where the kids are. Maybe even a bit of underfloor heating that needs maybe a further different temp. All this needs to be controlled externally & wired by the sparky.

There are never any instructions with the boiler apart from hanging it on the wall. - its down to the Plumber to sort out all of the design & circuit diagram .
 

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