Kitchen Wiring

[ljmountain]

We are about to move into a 1950 ex council house. The only electric points in the kitchen are 2 x dual plug sockets and 1 x cooker. We are going to need many more electrical points for all of the applicances that a modern kitchen requires.
Here is pic of the consumer unit and wiring under the stairs......

Untitled

• ljmountain
• 13 Apr 2010
• 1

Untitled

• ljmountain
• 13 Apr 2010
• 1

We are about to have 3 electricians quote for this job. What is the scope of works here? Is this a simple extend the ring within the kitchen to get more electric points or a new consumer unit and kitchen rewire..... FYI: We are only installing a single oven (gas hobs).

Does anyone have any guess to the age of the consumer unit?

Thanks in advance.

 

[ColJack]

shouldn't that cut out have been flagged up by the meter installer and changed by now??? aren't cast iron cut outs supposed to be changed?

anyway..
extend current ring ( asumption ) that the 2 existing sockets are on to feed the new general purpose sockets
new ring or radial for washer / dryer / dishwasher ( one spare way in board.. assuming it's not spare for a reason and that the sparky can get a new breaker for it.. )

is that an rcd or a voltage operated ELCB?

 

[flameport]

If there are only 2 socket outlets in the kitchen, it is pointless to try and extend what is there.

A likely set of works would be:
Install a new circuit for the kitchen socket outlets.
Replace cable for the cooker outlet (although you don't need this today, you/someone may well do in the future)
Replace the consumer unit.

Some repairs may be needed to the other circuits, but this should be done when the consumer unit is replaced.

Age of the CU - probably 1970s.

What is written on the main switch at the right?

 

[ColJack]

since you have only 1 socket circuit for the entire house ( didn't notice that earlier ) then I agree with flameport that you should have a new kitchen ring put in..

from what I can see, your CU goes ( from right to left ):
cooker
sockets
water heater
lights
lights

 

[ljmountain]

Thanks for the replies.

The fuses are:
Lights
Lights
Water Heater
Sockets
Cooker

The right hand switch reads:
"Device must switch off on testing if not seek advice"
"240v 50Hz, 100mA TRIP CAT wem 80/2"

Do you think I should specify a seperate cooker circuit even though I won't need it (correct me if I am wrong but a single oven won't need its own circuit)?

The rest of the house is very light on sockets, only 1 x dual in most rooms. Is it likely that I can spur off these or extend the ring with minimal of cost?

Shoudl I contact the electric company about the cast iron cutout? Is this something they should replace for free?

 

[RF Lighting]

shouldn't that cut out have been flagged up by the meter installer and changed by now??? aren't cast iron cut outs supposed to be changed?

It's actually a metal clad cutout rather than cast iron and contains a BS1361 fuse, so no need to replace it.

 

[flameport]

Do you think I should specify a seperate cooker circuit even though I won't need it (correct me if I am wrong but a single oven won't need its own circuit)?

Yes, you should have a separate circuit for a cooker/electric hob/oven.
Some single ovens can plug in to a 13A socket. Some do not. Either way the cost of doing this now is tiny compared to the cost of doing it later on.

The rest of the house is very light on sockets, only 1 x dual in most rooms. Is it likely that I can spur off these or extend the ring with minimal of cost?

You may be able to extend the ring, or add spurs depending on how the circuit is wired. However you will need a separate 30mA RCD installing for the socket circuit. Further 30mA RCDs may be required for other circuits if they are extended.
Adding an RCD to the circuits but keeping that board won't be compliant, as there won't be any real discrimination between the new RCD and the old one (the main switch).

Keeping the old board won't be compliant anyway, as that main switch is a single point of failure. Add anything else to it and you are just making this worse.
You could have a second smaller CU installed alongside the existing one - but the cost of that isn't going to be much different from having the old one replaced completely.

 

[ljmountain]

I don't suppose you fancy providing me with a ballpark price guide for the works, I am not sure what ballpark I am in here. Should I be annoyed at the surveyor as he said that the electrics were ok. Thanks again.

 

[SparkyNinja]

I don't suppose you fancy providing me with a ballpark price guide for the works, I am not sure what ballpark I am in here. Should I be annoyed at the surveyor as he said that the electrics were ok. Thanks again.

They all do..



If you were to ask me to quote for this work I would strongly suggest having a periodic inspection carried out initially.
It will allow for any existing concerns and dangers to be risen and now is the ideal opportunity for you to get such issues attended to.

If your house is empty and access to areas is not an issue then a periodic would cost around £120 - £150 IMO

 

[YorksSparks]

Should I be annoyed at the surveyor as he said that the electrics were ok. Thanks again.

Well they are OK - provided you don't make any additions/changes. As soon as you do then whatever you do must meet BS7671:2008 and thus almost certainly means changing the CU for one with RCD protection, separated by circuit (i.e. more than 1 RCD or using RCBOs).

If you leave it all alone it's fine, not apparently dangerous or "illegal", but you might want to put something in the empty way in the CU!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We are about to move into a 1950 ex council house.

Is this a move from an existing property, or a first-time?

Basically will there be a period of time when the house is yours but is unoccupied and unfurnished?

Wiring lives under whatever you put on the floors, above whatever you put on the ceilings, and beneath whatever you put on the walls.

You are moving into a property which has an installation which is not up to scratch, and although the cables we can see look OK there is no guarantee that hidden away there isn't some wiring which is 50-60 years old. If you're planning refurbishments it would be crazy not to sort the electrics out before you do anything to the floors/ceilings/walls.

 

[studentspark]

I was reading some where on the net that if you come across bs 3871 fuses (i think thats what these are) that you should replace them, due to the tripping mechanism getting stuck.
Since nobody has brought that up, is that information incorrect (the replacing bit)

 

[ljmountain]

Thanks for all the advice.

We are between exchange and completing now, so the house is empty for the next couple of weeks. The whole house needs modernising and I bought the house with the intent and at the price to do so.

Is the periodic inspection like a survey for the electrics? Is this what you use a basis for deciding what other works need to be completed? For example would it tell me that the whole house needs a re-wire?

 

[ColJack]

given that you've only got one double in most rooms then I'de recomend at least getting 2 new ring mains in addition to the kitchen work and CU change..
then you may need the lighting circuits doing if they don't have earths.. at which point it's more or less a rewire at that point anyway..

you're looking £2000-£3000 for a rewire with new CU and now is the time to do it.... before you move in and start decorating and laying new carpets etc..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1) You are going to need a new consumer unit - that one doesn't comply with the latest regulations, so no new circuits can be put on it.

2) You are almost certainly generally short of circuits, socket outlets, lighting points, light switch positions etc.

Given (1), and the work you know you want in the kitchen, and the likely work associated with (2), I'd say don't bother with a PIR, get an electrician to add all the new stuff you want, and have him check any individual circuits, or parts of circuits that you're keeping as he goes along.

Working on an empty and unoccupied house is quicker and therefore cheaper.


Good idea to put all wiring in conduit for ease of future changes. And if you specify metal conduit for switch drops, or BS 8436 cable it removes the need to have RCDs where you'd rather not. It does cost more though, and not everyone agrees with the future changes bit, but we regularly see people here wanting to do things where they need to draw more cables in, or remove/replace what's there.

Think hard about where to have sockets - it's difficult to have too many, and also about what circuits to have. The items on the list below won't all apply to you, but they are worth thinking about:

• Upstairs sockets
• Downstairs sockets
• Kitchen sockets
• Circuit for appliances
• Cooker circuit
• Non-RCD circuit for F/F
• Non-RCD circuit for CH boiler
• Dedicated circuit for hifi
• Dedicated circuit for IT equipment
• Upstairs lights
• Downstairs lights
• Immersion heater
• Loft lights
• Shower
• Bathroom circuit
• Alarms
• Supply for outside lights
• Supply for garden electrics
• Supply for shed/garage

Plus any peculiarities brought about by your house layout & construction - e.g. in mine because of solid floors and where the socket circuits run, I have a radial just for a socket in the hall, the doorbell and the porch lights.

Unless you want to go to the expense of RCBOs throughout, the CU should have at least 3 sections, 2 on RCDs and one not into which you can install a mix of RCBOs and MCBs.

If you live somewhere where supplies are dodgy in the winter, have the lights, the boiler supply, and a socket in each room wired to a separate CU, or a separate section in a large one, that can be supplied by an emergency generator - lights, heating, TV and a kettle/microwave make life a lot more bearable.

Flood-wiring with Cat6 or Cat6a cable is worth thinking about.