Level playing field, we want to fish in your waters ....Are they nuts ?
- Thread starter gasbanni
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This is more evidence you are wrong:
"In the event of a No Deal Brexit, the only tool currently available to UK hauliers to access the European market is ECMT permits. The fact that permits would be available to less than 9% of UK operators means that more than 90% of UK operators will be left in the cold. As we have been warning for some time, the number of permits available under international rules would be totally insufficient to keep Britain trading effectively and shows just how vital it is that a deal is reached with our European counterparts.
https://www.commercialfleet.org/new...-permits-awarded-to-less-than-1-000-operators
Lorries and cars went to europe long before we joined the eu, and will carry on doing so long after we leave.
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yeah back in Roman times there were no silly restrictions on lorries........
its a brexiteer admitting he has lost the argument.
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As Notch7 has pointed out, and as I have pointed out, the Vienna Convention covers car number plates, driving licence categories, and International Driving Permits.
It does not cover working in EU, which HGV drivers, whilst driving, would be doing.
As IT Minion has pointed out, and again as Notch7 has pointed out, the ECMT is extremely limited in scope, and is extremely limited in numbers available.
Also, one ECMT permit is for one HGV vehicle. It is only transferable while both vehicles are in UK.
A No Deal is looking increasingly unacceptable, and unlikely. That'll mean a massive climb down by UK negotiators, otherwise their ideology is going to drag everyone down with it.
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It looks to me as though to qualify for a ECMT you must have premises in a member state, and as UK would no longer be in EU, another member state's premises would be needed.:
Therefore, even if UK hauliers have an ECMT (for each vehicle that they operate) they still must comply with EU regulations.
There we go, it is covered specifically:
2. Conditions of establishment
2.1. An undertaking which pursues the occupation of international road haulage operator and wishes to carry out international road haulage operations under an ECMT multilateral licence must be established on a stable and effective basis in a Member country.
2.2. To this end, this undertaking must:
a) have at its disposal an establishment located in the said Member country with premises where it keeps its core business documents, in particular its accounting documents, personnel management documents, documents containing data relating to driving time and rest periods and any other document to which the competent authority must have access in accordance with their national legislation;
b) have at its disposal one or more vehicles which are registered or otherwise put into circulation in conformity with the legislation in that Member country, whether those vehicles are wholly owned or, for example, held under a hire-purchase agreement or a hire or leasing contract;
c) conduct effectively and continuously with the necessary administrative equipment its operations concerning the vehicles mentioned in point (b) and with the appropriate equipment and facilities at an operating centre situated in that Member country
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/itf201503fe_1.pdf
And you would be required to operate under the EU regulations.2.1. An undertaking which pursues the occupation of international road haulage operator and wishes to carry out international road haulage operations under an ECMT multilateral licence must be established on a stable and effective basis in a Member country.
2.2. To this end, this undertaking must:
a) have at its disposal an establishment located in the said Member country with premises where it keeps its core business documents, in particular its accounting documents, personnel management documents, documents containing data relating to driving time and rest periods and any other document to which the competent authority must have access in accordance with their national legislation;
b) have at its disposal one or more vehicles which are registered or otherwise put into circulation in conformity with the legislation in that Member country, whether those vehicles are wholly owned or, for example, held under a hire-purchase agreement or a hire or leasing contract;
c) conduct effectively and continuously with the necessary administrative equipment its operations concerning the vehicles mentioned in point (b) and with the appropriate equipment and facilities at an operating centre situated in that Member country
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/itf201503fe_1.pdf
Therefore, even if UK hauliers have an ECMT (for each vehicle that they operate) they still must comply with EU regulations.
There we go, it is covered specifically:
Chapter III – Provisions regarding the drivers of vehicles carrying out international road haulage operations under ECMT licences
1. Driving times and rest periods
1. Driving times and rest periods
1.1. The provisions of the European Agreement concerning the Work of Crews of Vehicles Engaged in International Road Transport (AETR) dated 1 July 1970, as subsequently amended, or those of equivalent regulations apply to all international road haulage operations carried out under ECMT licences. In the course of any international road haulage operation carried out under an ECMT licence, the undertaking and members of the crew must comply with the provisions laid down by the AETR with regard to the duration of driving and rest times and crew composition
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Johnson wants a deal, as no deal would be very messy
the problem is cakeism....brexiteers have been promised what cant be delivered
so Johnson desperately wants a deal as late as possible: it feeds the narrative of "Johnson won a great deal at the 11th hour, the EU blinked" and the later the deal the less time for brexiteers and parliament to scrutinise it.
no deal is unlikely but they dont have much of a landing zone on timing and they could easily end up with no deal by accident.
of course the govt could do an extension and call it an implementation period....
And EU27 have lost patience with a nation that does not keep its word.
The hard ideological Brexers like to say that no-deal is fine. Boris has insisted there will be no extension. There is no movement towards a deal.
The other nations have plenty on their minds and have given up trying to get any sense out of the Cummings government.
https://www.ft.com/content/59109865-d14c-4787-a64f-fc6ad0de0b81
"Few EU leaders expected much to emerge from last week’s round of EU-UK trade talks, but the mood in Brussels in the subsequent days has become pretty despondent. Officials and diplomats here say they are confronting twin realities that will make a damaging no-deal outcome at the end of the year tougher to avert.
First, the attitude towards the UK is hardening within many EU capitals. London’s refusal last week to budge on the points of key concern to the EU is seen less as a reflection of negotiating tactics and brinkmanship, but rather an “ideological” attachment to notions of British economic and regulatory sovereignty. This kind of purism leaves little scope for the compromises the EU sees as being needed to forge a trade agreement — particularly in the realm of “level playing field” provisions aimed at restricting the two sides’ ability to undercut each other.
The second is the cold logic of a timetable that the UK cemented by its decision to rule out an extension to its post-Brexit transition period. Parallels with this time last year, where there was a last-minute dash for a withdrawal deal between the two sides, do not hold water given how much unfinished work lies ahead today. “If we don’t see movement in the next three or four weeks a deal will not be possible,” said one senior EU diplomat."
"But there is currently little circumstantial evidence to support the case for the optimists. UK prime minister Boris Johnson appears not to have engaged intellectually with the trade-offs, despite his claims earlier this summer to be ready to do a deal. As a result, David Frost, the UK negotiator, has proved unable or unwilling to broker compromises on the big sticking points, asking instead for the EU to come back to those areas later.
Member states continue to back Michel Barnier’s insistence on dealing with all the topics — both nettlesome and straightforward — in parallel rather than leaving the difficult things to the last minute.
Officials say they have encountered no pressure from capitals for the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator to buckle to Britain."
Member states continue to back Michel Barnier’s insistence on dealing with all the topics — both nettlesome and straightforward — in parallel rather than leaving the difficult things to the last minute.
Officials say they have encountered no pressure from capitals for the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator to buckle to Britain."
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Blimey he could have Been up for a job as an EU commisionar
He would have fitted in well
That or a French politician
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