MK Logic Plus Rapid Fix Sockets (built in "Wagos")

[flameport]

we do not (cannot) yet know how Wagos fare after they have been in service for several decades.

Wago have been making spring clamp terminals since the 1960s.
The decades of extensive use have already occurred.

 

[JohnW2]

Wago have been making spring clamp terminals since the 1960s. The decades of extensive use have already occurred.

Yes, I had been expecting someone to say that - and also, indeed, that 'clamp'/spring terminals have been in use in some commercial/industrial settings for far longer than that.

However, they did not come into significant (let alone widespread) use in domestic (maybe not even commercial) installations until, relatively recently, the requirement for concealed joints to be "MF" appeared - and I doubt that many domestic/commercial electricians had used them significantly before that. It's also a little ironic that, because of this, the great majority of them now in-service are not amenable to 'inspection', so we'll only learn about long-term performance if/when there are consequences of their 'failure'.

There very probably will be no 'problem', even in the very long-term, but we just cannot yet know for sure, and won't know for quite some time to come. It's a bit like changes in lifestyle/diet/whatever intended to increase human lifespan - by definition, one has to wait a very long time to ascertain whether the changes have been successful in the intent!

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

Fair enough - although I would add my usual caution that (in contrast with screwed terminals) we do not (cannot) yet know how Wagos fare after they have been in service for several decades.

As I've said, the main attraction to me is the 'one conductor per terminal' - although, as I have illustrated, that can be (and has been) achieved with screw terminals.
Indeed. If the idea were to 'catch on', the logical result would be that all electrical accessories, of all makes, would eventually adopt this approach. I may be wrong, but I suspect it will remain as a 'novelty', but I'm glad to see that MK have tried it, so as to 'test the waters'!
Indeed - but, as above, also the 'disadvantages' we see with MF JBs in relation to the (inevitable) current uncertainties about very-long-term performance.

Kind Regards, John

What are the disadvantages, and are these just your uncertainties. As John has posted, the technology has been around for decades.

 

[JohnW2]

What are the disadvantages, and are these just your uncertainties. As John has posted, the technology has been around for decades.

I've indicated the nature of my uncertainties, but I have no idea to what extent they are shared by others. I function in fields in which anything has to be regarded as 'uncertain' unless/until there is a considerable amount of convincing hard data/evidence to largely alleviate uncertainties.

Whenever I raise this issue, some people point out, as John and yourself just have, that the technology has been around for a long time. My only personal experience (and even that fairly limited) is of domestic installations, and I think it's probably fair to say that significant use of non-screwed terminals in that setting is a relatively recent phenomenon.

I therefore wonder how widely non-screwed terminals have been used (and used with conductors of the types/sizes seen in domestic installations) in other settings and, in particular, would be grateful if someone could point me towards a source of data relating to very-long-term performance in those settings.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Are they actually Wagos, look more like the similar cheap copies that you see on Ebay, would people feel confident buying them rather than the genuine Wagos

 

[JohnW2]

Are they actually Wagos, look more like the similar cheap copies that you see on Ebay, would people feel confident buying them rather than the genuine Wagos

They presumably are not 'real Wagos' (don't look like them) (i.e. manufactured by Wago) and I presume that they were created by whoever manufactures MK sockets.

How 'confident' one can be presumably depends upon who manufactures them and what data/evidence they have to support their quality and performance. However, I suppose that equally applies to the screw terminals, or any other component, of any accessory, whether branded by MK or anyone else!

Kind Regards, John

 

[RandomGrinch]

My thoughts, not that they are worth much!

I feel it could be a great product to allow amateurs to safely wire up a new socket.
Screw terminals aren't exactly difficult to use, but they can have their issues for the inexperienced - especially when there are multiple wires per terminal.

Having a built-in wire stripping guage, a terminal per wire and clearly colour-coded terminals; almost makes wiring this socket safely, foolproof!

 

[JohnW2]

I feel it could be a great product to allow amateurs to safely wire up a new socket.
Screw terminals aren't exactly difficult to use, but they can have their issues for the inexperienced - especially when there are multiple wires per terminal. ... Having a built-in wire stripping guage, a terminal per wire and clearly colour-coded terminals; almost makes wiring this socket safely, foolproof!

I don't really disagree with any of that, other than perhaps to add that an 'amateur' who needs that degree of 'foolproofness' probably should not be wiring a new socket in the first place.

Kind Regards, John

 

[RandomGrinch]

I don't really disagree with any of that, other than perhaps to add that an 'amateur' who needs that degree of 'foolproofness' probably should not be wiring a new socket in the first place.

Kind Regards, John

Yes, but you'll never be able to stop them having a go!
You may as well make it as easy and as safe as possible (within reason)

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, but you'll never be able to stop them having a go! You may as well make it as easy and as safe as possible (within reason)

True - I don't disagree with that, either.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

I agree under ideal conditions with the wires of the same type and cut to just the right length (not too long, not too short) these won't save much time.

But how many times have you had to fit a socket under less than ideal conditions, where the previous guy cut the wires really short so you can't see what you are doing as you wire up the socket? or where you have a mixture of different conductor types?

The problem I see is that without re-designing the terminals I don't think it's possible to expand this idea to most other electrical accessories. I simply don't think the terminals would fit on a single socket, let alone on a FCU.

 

[sparkwright]

I envisage some DIY bodges where a socket has four cables (and the MK socket can only accept three).

***

I'd like to think once the wires are inserted, it's fool proof, and no need to go back to check and 'make sure' they did go in properly.

 

[delmel]

Which electrical accessories are not made in SE Asia?

Kind Regards, John

Probably none. The last ones I was aware of being manufacturer or assembled in UK was RPP. I am unsure if they still are

 

[ericmark]

I thought spec for 13 amp socket allows cable from 1.5 mm² to 6 mm² to be used, but these only allow 2.5 mm² or 4 mm² I have never measured the cable 3/0.029 to 7/0.044 have all been used for 13 amp sockets with supply from 13 to 32 amp both as rings and radials plus fused and unfused spurs.

I can see with a steel framed building where vibration is more of an issue these may have a place, the CAGE CLAMP® connectors are unlikely to have a problem with vibration, but not sure about fitting a cable previously held by screws into the CAGE CLAMP® connectors and often cable length is short so cutting and using cable not previously clamped is not an option.

Since the cable size is limited, one would need to carry both types, unless new installation, so why bother?

 

[JohnW2]

I thought spec for 13 amp socket allows cable from 1.5 mm² to 6 mm² to be used, but these only allow 2.5 mm² or 4 mm² ....

The 'specs' for sockets (e.g. MK ones) usually mention 2.5 mm² , 4 mm² and 6 mm², but I'm not so sure about 1.5 mm².

However, I'm also not so sure about your 'allow'. Mention of conductors is usually in a section of the Specification entitled "Terminal Capacity", and that might well be intended as 'information', rather than a 'rating'/'rule'. The same Specification will usually include things like dimensions, weight, colour, IP rating etc., and they are clearly just 'information' not any sort of rating/rule.

Kind Regards, John