Moonlighting Gas Fitter

[hard-work]

Good points Bernard. A neighbour had an old Ideal combi replaced with a Vaillant. The job was appalling. Instead of one elbow 4 were used - they had no.idea of professional pipework.
The cement around the flue look like a child did it. The Nest base unit was fixed with one screw swivelling. The electric wire was wrapped around hot pipes. The condensate pipe was fixed with solder wrapped around it. All GasSafe.

I contacted GasSafe who were really not interested. They were more concerned that it was safe - gas tight with no fumes leaking. With little regard to the appalling shoddy workmanship.

 

[hard-work]

From H&S.....

"At present we do not believe that this evidence is sufficiently strong to suggest that current legal controls (ie for competence under GSIUR regulation 3(1)) are inadequate, and an absolute ban needs to be placed on DIY."

So the H&S do not want to ban DIY gas work. Simple isn't it. So that means it is legal as they do not want to ban it.

I do not want encourage novices to do DIY gas. However responsible people can do it. They are usually people in other technical trades.

 

[bernardgreen]

Good points Bernard. A neighbour had an old Ideal combi replaced with a Vaillant.

An aquaintance had gas pipe work installed with two joints left un-soldered. The installer's fob off was that the solder was there, just not visible in a very tidy joint. Proof was when they could be pulled apart.

However responsible people can do it. They are usually people in other technical trades.

or they have a vested interest as they will be the people living in the house.

 

[Notch7]

I have given the proof. Direct from H&S. I did a quick Google then it came up. Emphatic. You have given no proof whatsoever that gas work for no gain requires a GasSafe registration. All the stuff you posted was for those operating for gain.

If your mind cannot assymilate simple English then it is best you stay in your world.

The separation between 'being competent' and 'being able to prove competency' seems to me the eternal question.

Proving competency surely means a person must be registered in some way -that way an audit trail that can be followed.........a test certificate, inspection report, whatever would have the engineers name on it. That name can be cross referenced to whichever professional body where he is a member and that will provide proof he has qualification confirming competency.

 

[hard-work]

The separation between 'being competent' and 'being able to prove competency' seems to me the eternal question.

Proving competency surely means a person must be registered in some way -that way an audit trail that can be followed.........a test certificate, inspection report, whatever would have the engineers name on it. That name can be cross referenced to whichever professional body where he is a member and that will provide proof he has qualification confirming competency.

Not another one!!! A piece of paper does not prove you are competent. Competency is what you do, the result and safety in how you work. It is not difficult to understand.

I came across some guys with pieces of paper who I would not let over the front door. People who should not be let loose onto the public. Read my posts.

 

[Robster_1981]

Proving competency surely means a person must be registered in some way -that way an audit trail that can be followed.........a test certificate, inspection report, whatever would have the engineers name on it. That name can be cross referenced to whichever professional body where he is a member and that will provide proof he has qualification confirming competency.

You are correct when it comes to you as a gas engineer doing work for the general public, but a private individual doing work for themselves knows what they are capable of. What percentage of the general public would honestly attempt fitting a boiler, or re-wiring a house?
I am not registered with any professional body, but I have got my 18th edition regs, and I am allowed to work for reward, although I am not able to certify any notifiable work, and have to go through either the local authority, or have a registered spark to sign off the work, so I can quite legitimately go around working on people’s electrics with no traceability. The fact is, that I wouldn’t do that, and there lies the eternal problem. Some people are responsible and ensure that they do things safely and comply with all laws/regs. Some people do not. There will never be any way of stopping that unfortunately

 

[Notch7]

Not another one!!! A piece of paper does not prove you are competent. Competency is what you do, the result and safety in how you work. It is not difficult to understand.

I came across some guys with pieces of paper who I would not let over the front door. People who should not be let loose onto the public. Read my posts.

I have read your posts.
I cannot understand where you address the issue of proof. That is why there are registration schemes.

Lets say there is a gas explosion in a house after work was done. The Insurers are called in to investigate. They will say: 'please can I have details of gas work undertaken in this house'.
How would you prove the work was done by a competent person? Where is the paperwork trail.

 

[hard-work]

From H&S document:
Safety in the installation and use
of gas systems and appliances

Summary of regulation 3 This section of the ACOP requires anyone carrying out gas work to be competent. Even if working at premises to which GSIUR does not apply (eg factories, quarries etc – see regulation 2(4)), people carrying out gas work must be competent to work safely. Employers of people carrying out gas work and self-employed people carrying out gas work must be a member of a class of persons approved by HSE. ​

It mentions that employers and self employed must be registered - a class of person. Not an employer or self employed? No need to. Employers and self employed work for gain.

The H&S text is in two parts:
1. First emphasises competence.

2. The second part, the last sentence, focuses on registration for those employed in gas work.

If you are not employed in gas work, the second part does not apply. Simple. You just need to be competent.

 

[Robster_1981]

How would you prove the work was done by a competent person? Where is the paperwork trail.

That is the point really, the homeowner doesn’t have to prove anything. They (the insurers/courts) have to prove that it wasn’t done competently

 

[hard-work]

I have read your posts.

you obviously did not understand a word.

 

[bernardgreen]

Lets say there is a gas explosion in a house after work was done

How would you prove the work was done by a competent person?

The explosion could be the proof that the work was not done in a competent manner.

I am sure there have been instances in the gas industry where a tradesperson has tried to avoid responsibility by using a paper trail that proved he was ( once ) competent. It happens in other trades.

 

[Notch7]

you obviously did not understand a word.

I did indeed understand.

I also noted you avoided the following: "if a person is not registered, how does that person prove competency".

 

[Notch7]

Not another one!!! A piece of paper does not prove you are competent. Competency is what you do, the result and safety in how you work. It is not difficult to understand.

I came across some guys with pieces of paper who I would not let over the front door. People who should not be let loose onto the public. Read my posts.

Unfortunately you are conflating two different arguments.

1. it is normal practice that proof of competency is established by a tradesmen being registered with an appropriate registration body.

2. you can argue whether the criteria set to establish competency is or is not satisfactory, however that is a separate argument.

Please can you explain how a non registered 'competent person' can complete a building regulation compliance certificate.

 

[Notch7]

The explosion could be the proof that the work was not done in a competent manner.

I am sure there have been instances in the gas industry where a tradesperson has tried to avoid responsibility by using a paper trail that proved he was ( once ) competent. It happens in other trades.

The insurance industry use paper trails to check compliance to regulations -because conditions of insurance include compliance to regulatory bodies in their small print.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

DIY gas has been proven to kill people and to destroy property and invariably the damage isn't just restricted to the person that performed the DIY gas work. More often than not with gas there is major collateral damage.

I guess it all comes down to safety. Gas safe engineers, in the main, have the training, quals and equipment to ensure that correct testing of a gas connection and that a gas appliance is safe to use so it won't kill everyone in the house that's it's located in or close to it.

..and sometimes don't perform the work competently! I have seen several examples of such work gone wrong.

Usually, someone who is simply competent and doing the work in their own home that their family live in, will do the work more competently than a fully trained, fully competent person with all of the correct paperwork in place.

To my mind, a U gauge and pressure drop test over a limited amount of time, with an allowable drop is a remarkably poor way to test gas soundness. When I test I run the test for hours and expect zero drop in pressure.