Next...the Kitchen!!

[sergeantash]

Ash; I have only ever used glass fibre, self adhesive reinforcing tape. The only time I ever had a problem was when I did my first D&D wall back in 2004 & was BECAUSE I had gaps & didn’t fill before taping so peaps is right there. The skim also sank between the boards showing a very small but noticeable trough line where the board joints were & I had to fill it. Never had any problems since & if the tape “grins” through, your putting the skim on to thin.

Agreed, I'm going to stick with Fibre because its far stronger, and hasn't shown in any of my past plastered rooms (my plasterer's good though!).

So...if for any reason any of my boards have a gap between them, fill first, then scrim, then skim right?

 

[Richard C]

When you give good advice and you come across people who are self taught who argue the toss over something so simple it can get your back up. And let's face it, you would get worse on site.

Self taught = bad habits. You can't learn from white papers you can only learn from experience.

He's a well of info, some you won't find in books.

Well “old school” & old habits die hard which means we would never move on. I don’t agree self taught = bad habits, if anything the opposite; I am self taught but not just from “white papers”, I also had “hands on” tuition from a couple of pretty good spreads indeed. I agree that experience is all important & just when you think you’ve got it all sussed, something comes & bites you on the asre. I can’t match the generational thing but am a good plasterer (amongst other things) & specialise in renovation work. I’ve no interest in super spread site work or just buttering boards, too boring & I’m too old & slow to match the youngsters. I don’t see what’s wrong with using the manufacturer’s technical guidance as a source of reference & why on earth would it be wrong but I am also aware ther are contradictions! I’ll proabbly be acused of beign a parrot now but copied from the British Gypsum website;
“British Gypsum has been producing the WHITE BOOK for over 35 years, and we’re proud to launch the new 11th edition.
The WHITE BOOK is a comprehensive guide to everything we do. It contains a wide range of partitioning and lining solutions, specifications and products, as well as test substantiation data and an overview of installation details.
We regularly update the WHITE BOOK with new information, making this one of the most up-to-date and comprehensive reference source for the drywall industry. Please register to receive notification of updates by email by clicking on the the 'Register for WHITE BOOK email updates' link on the right.”

 

[peaps]

When you give good advice and you come across people who are self taught who argue the toss over something so simple it can get your back up. And let's face it, you would get worse on site.

Self taught = bad habits. You can't learn from white papers you can only learn from experience.

He's a well of info, some you won't find in books.

Well “old school” & old habits die hard which means we would never move on. I don’t agree self taught = bad habits, if anything the opposite; I am self taught but not just from “white papers”, I also had “hands on” tuition from a couple of pretty good spreads indeed. I agree that experience is all important & just when you think you’ve got it all sussed, something comes & bites you on the asre. I can’t match the generational thing but am a good plasterer (amongst other things) & specialise in renovation work. I’ve no interest in super spread site work or just buttering boards, too boring & I’m too old & slow to match the youngsters. I don’t see what’s wrong with using the manufacturer’s technical guidance as a source of reference & why on earth would it be wrong but I am also aware ther are contradictions! I’ll proabbly be acused of beign a parrot now but copied from the British Gypsum website;
“British Gypsum has been producing the WHITE BOOK for over 35 years, and we’re proud to launch the new 11th edition.
The WHITE BOOK is a comprehensive guide to everything we do. It contains a wide range of partitioning and lining solutions, specifications and products, as well as test substantiation data and an overview of installation details.
We regularly update the WHITE BOOK with new information, making this one of the most up-to-date and comprehensive reference source for the drywall industry. Please register to receive notification of updates by email by clicking on the the 'Register for WHITE BOOK email updates' link on the right.”

"I am also aware ther are contradictions"

So the white book is not all it's made out to be then? I don't do contradictions, years of experience taught me this.

The object of plasterboard is to end up wit one solid surface. If you butt up not allowing for fill when you add skrim you defeat the object. You fill the gap to obtain this goal. Leaving it butted up leave weak point at the joints, it's very basic stuff.

You can read up all you want in the white book, contradictions and all.

http://www.british-gypsum.com/pdf/LIT_FinishingGuideForPlasterandPlasterboard_01.pdf

Page 12 is what you need to read.
Moving on.

 

[Richard C]

Your being rather selective with your reference data. The document you link is a finishing guide it’s not a boarding guide – the one I previously linked is. The finishing guide states “pre-fill any gaps between plasterboards exceeding 3mm” which I fully agree with; it doesn’t say leave a 3mm gap between the boards! Even when close butted, I always fill the joints & screw heads before taping. There are also provisos & notes in the finishing guide regarding GRP mesh tape in that it’s not suitable for unsupported joints which I wouldn’t do anyway.

Moving on.

Probably a good idea, it’s all getting a bit silly really; obviously caused by me initially telling your alter ego friend where to go after he unjustifyable had a go at me on his very first post merely because I pointed out forum rules regarding post hijacking.

Nothing I say/do or any official technical data is going to make any difference to your entrenched view. With a lack of other opinions, I'll agree to disagree; you carry on your way & I’ll carry on with mine. I’ve had no complaints or failures in the 8 years I’ve been in this line of work (admittedly I don't do much boarding out now), neither am I short of all the work I need or want; not many can say that!

 

[Richard C]

What's your problem now

 

[darrington]

What's your problem now

His problem now is Ted, Peap's best plasterer. At the moment, (as of 8.36pm) tonight,, Ted is laying on the floor pi$$ed,,,, again,, according to Peaps
Ted,,, or XBlack as he likes to be known, doesn't have a computer of his own, so he uses Peap's one. Yesterday,, Ted (xblack) went on the computer and posted a comment. "Have a read of read it" Topic:: (Victas Render and Plaster),,, but it "accidently" came up under Peap's name,, silly boy. He forgot to log out on Peaps account and use his own xblack one,, so Peaps says anyway.

 

[peaps]

What's your problem now

If the fire place is to be used then it would change the critera for the wall wouldn't it? Can't put battons and insulated boards on that wall, can you?


Interested in why you haven't responded to the thermal protecting question when butting up insted of filling the board joints, relevent question to the topic me thinks..?

Wouldn't want to advise a person to butt up and reduce thermal protection in a fire risk area, would you? Need all the protection you would offer your own family I would expect?

 

[Richard C]

If the fire place is to be used then it would change the critera for the wall wouldn't it?

Well I missed the bit about the fire place I’ll give you that but as you’ve only just mentioned it so did you initially. The main topic is kitchen/diner & it didn’t register which is unusual for me as I’m usually hot on stoves & fire places which you would be aware of if you knew me; or perhaps you are aware.

Ash, do you intend to use the fireplace? If so then there are other considerations, some involving Building Regulations.

Can't put battons and insulated boards on that wall, can you?

No I agree you can’t do that; in fact there are restrictions on the proximity of combustible materials so timber battens may not be permissible either. Gypsum based boards & plaster isn’t suitable, either if the temperature exceeds 49 degrees it will fail.

Interested in why you haven't responded to the thermal protecting question when butting up insted of filling the board joints, relevent question to the topic me thinks..? Wouldn't want to advise a person to butt up and reduce thermal protection in a fire risk area, would you? Need all the protection you would offer your own family I would expect?

You got me there as well; which thermal protection question was that then?

Why are you getting so arsey peaps, what’s the point?

 

[peaps]

Well I missed the bit about the fire place I’ll give you that but as you’ve only just mentioned it so did you initially. The main topic is kitchen/diner & it didn’t register which is unusual for me as I’m usually hot on stoves & fire places which you would be aware of if you knew me; or perhaps you are aware.

Yes eventhough you gave advice from the begining of the topic you missed it a couple of times at least. Yes I'm guilty of not reading through the topic from the begining but I did last night and it stuck out like a sore thumb.

No I agree you can’t do that; in fact there are restrictions on the proximity of combustible materials so timber battens may not be permissible either. Gypsum based boards & plaster isn’t suitable, either if the temperature exceeds 49 degrees it will fail.

Let's hope he hasn't had a delivery from the builders supply hey?

You got me there as well; which thermal protection question was that then?

Why are you getting so arsey peaps, what’s the point?

Maybe you should read through the replies..? You could be accussed of been entrenched in your ways.

Not getting "arsey" at all just clearing up some points that I think are important, just ignoring questions about what I consider bad advice wouldn't be in the spirit of the forum, or am I missing something here? Is it a question of what advice is given by yourself is law?

It's relevent to debate methods when giving advice when one thinks the advice isn't correct. In that way the right advice ends up been actioned by the person seeking it. Nothing personal or arsey at all, well that's the way I look at it.

 

[peaps]

Nothing I say/do or any official technical data is going to make any difference to your entrenched view. With a lack of other opinions, I'll agree to disagree; you carry on your way & I’ll carry on with mine. I’ve had no complaints or failures in the 8 years I’ve been in this line of work (admittedly I don't do much boarding out now), neither am I short of all the work I need or want; not many can say that!

Would this be the tec data you refer to?



Correct way according to BG, old method..? So why would BG sell a product that's not up for the job I ask myself.. Alot to be said about company tec data, after all they are trying to sell their product over others, I think it's called capitalism.



Mmm, glass fibre tends to crack I see.....

 

[stevethespreader]

I use cotton skrim. Self adhesive is crap. With cotton skrim you add plaster to the joint then apply the skrim, add more plaster to cover the skrim, wait until the plaster goes stiff then brush with a wet brush. When it's dry you fill board with plaster, first coat, then with your second coat fill the whole area. Stronger joints and better finish.

ive just raked back some cracks in my own house to find gaps of 3 mil or more with jute scrim so there not that strong m8 and before you say anything i was taught and shown to do the jute scrim method also

 

[peaps]

I use cotton skrim. Self adhesive is crap. With cotton skrim you add plaster to the joint then apply the skrim, add more plaster to cover the skrim, wait until the plaster goes stiff then brush with a wet brush. When it's dry you fill board with plaster, first coat, then with your second coat fill the whole area. Stronger joints and better finish.

ive just raked back some cracks in my own house to find gaps of 3 mil or more with jute scrim so there not that strong m8 and before you say anything i was taught and shown to do the jute scrim method also

 

[sergeantash]

Yes the fireplace will be used but not as an open fire, the plan is to fit a wood burning stove into the fireplace, so does this still affect the wall covering? I need to get the chimney smoke tested to show whether or not it needs lining.

I have considered not plasterboarding the chimney wall and instead covering it with some sort of render?

Are the walls eitherside ok to be timer/insulated then?

 

[peaps]

Yes the fireplace will be used but not as an open fire, the plan is to fit a wood burning stove into the fireplace, so does this still affect the wall covering? I need to get the chimney smoke tested to show whether or not it needs lining.

I have considered not plasterboarding the chimney wall and instead covering it with some sort of render?

Are the walls eitherside ok to be timer/insulated then?

You would be better leaving the "breast" and rendering it in lime if you are to fit a stove. Many things come into play when you are fitting a stove. The main point are what heat it radiates. Boilers radiate less heat to the room so the temp isn't as high as none boiler types that radiate into the room. My boiler is huge but it's designed to be free standing also. I get about 3k into the room when the boiler is at full whack but I could put logs under the boiler.

Because of the heat and cooling the "breast" will have a degree of movement also, this is why I would lime the whole lot rather than just the front face.

If you are going to batton and insulation boards then you have to plan the whole room out. Make sure you have enough room aroun door casings etc These older buildings tend to have door openings close to the wall.

Use NHL 3.5 at 1/5 and use a good quality clean dry sand. Don't just shovel it in to the mixer, either weigh it or guage it with a bucket, 1 level bucket to 5 sand.


The insulation on the boards will melt if they get hot enough.

Your house was built with lime (black ash lime by the looks of it, any coal mines near you?) so it is designed to flex so when you batton, board and skim you need to make sure the joints are strong. Gypsum doesn't move...

Leave a 2mm gap to allow for the plaster to fill the void, add strength and additional thermal reststance incase of fire. In this way you have at least 14mm skim between the joints and not 2/3mm of skim..

If you build a frame then board it butted up then skim and add pressure in one corner the joints will move but if you have filled the joints like you are suposed to then it won't be a weak point, the boards adhere to each other.....

 

[sergeantash]

Chaps - here's some photos specifically of the chimney breast, having reviewed some other posts throughout the forum in similar context it would appear that rendering (lime or otherwise) and skimming the chimney is possibly the best step forward, but I'm confused as to whether I can continue boarding the adjacent walls, and whether I should use Fire plasterboard on those walls eitherside?

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• sergeantash
• 5 Feb 2012
• 1

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• sergeantash
• 5 Feb 2012
• 1

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• sergeantash
• 5 Feb 2012
• 1