Next time, don't answer the phone...

[misterdubya]

The truth is, someone in the depths of depression can't rationalize as to the feelings of those left behind. Tunnel vision. How is that selfish?????

My girlfriend killed herself in 1998, while I was on holiday with the boys.
I live with that guilt every single day. She suffered terrible bouts of depression, but never once did I consider her selfish for doing it.
She's at peace.

You assume 'she was in the depths of depression'. You'll never know. As for loved ones topping themselves, Id quite happily discuss that privately - but not on an open forum. I have my reasons for that.

As for your girlfriend - you have my upmost sympathy LMB.

 

[conny]

LMB, I would like to publicly apologise if my post hurt/upset you the other night. Obviously I had no idea of your personal tragedy and its possible that if I had I may have written my post in a different way. However, regarding the bloke I was posting about I stand by what I said. He was, in my opinion at the time and also from facts I have heard from his wife since, not suffering from depression and I honestly think he was out to frighten her but tragically it went wrong. He paid the ultimate price but she and others, myself included, have to carry what we witnessed for the rest of our lives.

Once again, I apologise for the way I posted and regret hurting you.

 

[EddieM]

I have a different view about suicide, and it possibly echo's some of the others view on here. A lot of folk talk about how selfish it is and how it hurts the people who they leave behind. I have no doubt that it does hurt those left behind, dreadfully, but I think no-one in a non suicidal state can really comprehend what that individual is going through, clearly rational thought has gone.

I was particularly touched by this, when the family of one of the jumpers off the twin towers, disowned him as he had committed suicide, my view however, is that he was extremely brave. rather than burn to death, in a fate someone else dictated, he chose to end his life on his terms by jumping...... all respect is due.

 

[calorific]

I think this thread has inadvertently touched a lot of raw nerves. We all have our views, experiences and emotions. I doubt that we'll be able to convince anyone else to change their feelings on the matter as we've developed out own personal "coping strategies" to coin a commie pinko term of phrase.

As such, since we'll never actually know for a fact why someone actually tops themselves, maybe it's best to accept other's views on this, agree to a metaphorical group hug, and move on?

 

[LastMagicBean]

LMB, I would like to publicly apologise if my post hurt/upset you the other night. Obviously I had no idea of your personal tragedy and its possible that if I had I may have written my post in a different way. However, regarding the bloke I was posting about I stand by what I said. He was, in my opinion at the time and also from facts I have heard from his wife since, not suffering from depression and I honestly think he was out to frighten her but tragically it went wrong. He paid the ultimate price but she and others, myself included, have to carry what we witnessed for the rest of our lives.

Once again, I apologise for the way I posted and regret hurting you.

You of all people owe me nothing in the way of apologies Conny.

Death, destruction and misery has plagued my life.

If some sort of solace can come from 'understanding' why people take their own lives, then that has to be a good thing for all those left behind.

It's a subject I feel strongly about. But your opinion is equally valid.

 

[chapeau]

As such, since we'll never actually know for a fact why someone actually tops themselves, maybe it's best to accept other's views on this, agree to a metaphorical group hug, and move on?

Plenty of people leave a note. We don't know whether this lady left one or not. We don't know whether she spoke to family and friends about her mental state at the time. So it's not correct to say that we don't know why people kill themselves, in fact quite a few make an effort to tell us exactly why they did.

 

[LastMagicBean]

I have a different view about suicide, and it possibly echo's some of the others view on here. A lot of folk talk about how selfish it is and how it hurts the people who they leave behind. I have no doubt that it does hurt those left behind, dreadfully, but I think no-one in a non suicidal state can really comprehend what that individual is going through, clearly rational thought has gone.

Absolutely right.

 

[chapeau]

Well i disagree.

Take several cases

1) Somebody with a psychotic illness which results in them commiting suicide simply because the sun came up that morning.

2) A thirty year old who has lost their job, partner has left them, house has been repossesed, and who got the secretary pregnant and she just lost her job too.

3) A ninety year old old who has lost their partner of 70 years and simply doesn't want to live any more without them.

4) A person with a diagnosis of terminal cancer who is told that their remaining month is going to be very unpleasant indeed.

I have no idea which one this nurse came closest to, but I am guessing 2)

Not all might be considered irrational if they killed themselves, IMO of course, others might differ in their opinion and fair enough.

 

[masona]

Well i disagree.

Take several cases

1) Somebody with a psychotic illness which results in them commiting suicide simply because the sun came up that morning.

2) A thirty year old who has lost their job, partner has left them, house has been repossesed, and who got the secretary pregnant and she just lost her job too.

3) A ninety year old old who has lost their partner of 70 years and simply doesn't want to live any more without them.

4) A person with a diagnosis of terminal cancer who is told that their remaining month is going to be very unpleasant indeed.

I have no idea which one this nurse came closest to, but I am guessing 2)

Not all might be considered irrational if they killed themselves, IMO of course, others might differ in their opinion and fair enough.

My gut feeling could be that the Queen as British Monarch is the most powerful person on earth therefore probably felt deeply embarrassed for upsetting the Royal Family. Wherever she goes she will be remembered for what she did and maybe couldn't live with it, could be a spur of the moment suicide. We are never ever going to know, did the Royal Family made a compliant or did the husband gave her a hard time over it?

None of us can help how we feel or the way we're made.

 

[EddieM]

Well i disagree.

Take several cases

1) Somebody with a psychotic illness which results in them commiting suicide simply because the sun came up that morning.

2) A thirty year old who has lost their job, partner has left them, house has been repossesed, and who got the secretary pregnant and she just lost her job too.

3) A ninety year old old who has lost their partner of 70 years and simply doesn't want to live any more without them.

4) A person with a diagnosis of terminal cancer who is told that their remaining month is going to be very unpleasant indeed.

I have no idea which one this nurse came closest to, but I am guessing 2)

Not all might be considered irrational if they killed themselves, IMO of course, others might differ in their opinion and fair enough.

How about a 40 something year old who's lost his job, kicked out of his own house by his soon to be ex, loses nearly all his possesions, and who's car decides to terminally die on him shortly afterwards. ....... Oh no, hang on, that's me!!

 

[chapeau]

You'd be a 2).

I would say that if you were to top yourself it would be a foolish short term decision and not be rational/understandable/make sense in the long term. So you shouldn't do it, there is after all no going back.

There are plenty of people who have had similar experiences and so would 'comprehend what that individual is going through'.

So keep on trucking, keep the friends you have got, and don't let the bastards grind you down. And don't take any medication as that ain't going to help.

 

[Diane2]

You'd be a 2).

I would say that if you were to top yourself it would be a foolish short term decision and not be rational/understandable/make sense in the long term. So you shouldn't do it, there is after all no going back.

There are plenty of people who have had similar experiences and so would 'comprehend what that individual is going through'.

So keep on trucking, keep the friends you have got, and don't let the b*****d grind you down. And don't take any medication as that ain't going to help.

eddiem is talking about 2009....that was him then.......look at him now.....

 

[Space cat]

And don't take any medication as that ain't going to help.

Sorry but that is absolutely not true. Tri-cyclic and SSRI antidepressants are very effective in the majority of cases and even the old MAOI drugs were better than nothing. Left to its own devices, depression can drag on for years. That's if it doesn't kill you first.

You don't have to put up with it. I know we men are famous for not going to the doctor until there's so much wrong with us that we can't get to the doctor - but DO IT!

 

[chapeau]

What you describe would be a more a 1), not a 2) which is how I categorised Eddie.

A 1) would require quite intensive intervention which would almost certainly include a hefty dose of a whatever was the chemical straightjacket of the day.

But taking drugs because simply you are a bit down and sad is a remarkably bad idea.

And SSRI's probably don't even work in the majority of people who take them.

 

[Diane2]

What you describe would be a more a 1), not a 2) which is how I categorised Eddie.

eddiem found the best cure of all....