NVQ level 2??

[transam]

Hmm I dunno ? I do not nessarily buy into this time served opinion .

In alot of ways those that came into the industry a few years ago are brought up with this new boiler technology ect others have had to adapt which can be difficult ?

I would agree that some of the hands on skills are lacking in some , these are the things that cannot be readily taught or passed on ,w e had 1 youngster who was never meant to in a practical job awkward cak handed was not his fault just the way it is , give some one a piece of wood & some will create a table , give it to others & well they will probably end up in A&E with a finger missing or poke there eye out! A&E is probably full of diyers that have injured them selves B&Q should be taxed & made to pay it to the NHS for all the expense they indirectly cause the country

 

[Fredthefly12]

A&Es are full of DaftyDIYers on any Bankholiday mate, so that speaks volumes.

Yeah, you're right some kids just don't have it, we've been lucky, most of the kids we have are good & I spend some time with them on-the-tools. But we will only employ kids with high Standard Grade(O levels) passes & we ask them about their fathers & uncles, what do they work at. That'll tell you a lot about a kid. With apprentices, things can sometimes just fall into place, they mature & the penny drops.

But kids working with a journeyman learning his trade is the only way to go. He learns first hand all day long, makes mistakes & they can be corrected. Christ, when I think about the old boys I worked with as an apprentice, some in their 70s, others had been POWs FFS!! What a great guys they were. Skills? they were artisans, f.cking artisans & very fast, they could leave you standing.

 

[gasafengineer]

Most don't appreciate the merits of a properly trained plumbing & heating engineer , repairing boilers & installing combis is a far cry from the 'real world' of what should be expected of this trade , let most RGIs loose in a plantroom & they would be lost , ask most on here to install a bank of boilers with proper control & i can forsee a lot of head scratching. , lets not get into ad-hoc conections , split flow & return common headers , common header with injection manifold , advantages of close coupled tee arrangements (primary/secondary) , lead lag arrangements , boiler sequencing , primary ring main with injection , correct installation of an HE boiler when added to a conventional bank , avoidance of back end corrosion , gas boosters , commercial strength testing/tightness testing , cutting threading & welding steel pipe , lead burning (herringbone/thumbnail) , i could go on........puts the plumbing & heating trade into some sort of perspective don't you think? ..................anyway , back to those clever domestic boiler monkeys on here with their fans , PCBs , flow switches...................

 

[Biggles..]

Welcome back ironman.

 

[gasafengineer]

Welcome back ironman.

....please..........................don't associate me with that fool.

 

[transam]

I think u might be a tadge harsh there gasafengineer ??

commercial is a bit of a different animal , not that many doing it , compared to domestic anyway , thats why the finacial rewards are so much better , it is also not an easy market to get into , did quite a bit many years ago for a company I used to work for mostly in schools , wet side , not the gas side ! turned alot of commercial away as well , as we are not really geared up for it now. The nature of the job meant that we took or made very few decisions , basically we followed the heating consultants drawings or spec , they speced every thing , boilers ,controls pipe sizes ect ect the brains ( if that is the right term ) of the job were supplied by others , yes we queried some things but ultimately providing you had the hands on practical skills it was ok .

I think Icgs is into commercial at the design stage maybe ?

 

[Biggles..]

I think it's fair to say plumbing and heating is so diverse that you can't know everything about it all.to call domestic guys boiler monkeys isn't fair,I know many commercial lads you would stic in a house that wouldn't know why a s/y plan is,3 t rule,pump arrangement,etc. Do they come on here mouthing off about commercial monkeys.

To answer transam yes we design,specify and install commercial installations.Got a 9am meeting Tuesday to rip into a mech consultant that has completely got a brief wrong for zoning a school.

 

[gasafengineer]

.Got a 9am meeting Tuesday to rip into a mech consultant that has completely got a brief wrong for zoning a school.

We were changing the boilers in a block off Piccadily Circus in the mid/late 80s (st james street) , around the time of the Iranian Embassy seige (nightmare) , the contractors on the 4th floor asked if we would run a pair of heating mains from boilers & supply & fit radiators serving the offices etc , looking @ the drawings the 'consultant' forgot to add anchors & bellows to reverse return pipework fixed around perimetor of building supplying radiators (150ftx100ft) , dicussing this with him he suggested to carry on & spec as per drawing as HE was the 'consultant' & WE were the installers , after recieving in writing to go ahead & install per drawing we were happy to go ahead , after installing & commisioning the heating was left on over night , got a call around 7am the following day to say the computer rooms on the floor below were flooded along with the offices , cost the 'consultant' 6k for us to install anchors & bellows along with whatever insurance had to be paid out.

 

[gasafengineer]

I think it's fair to say plumbing and heating is so diverse that you can't know everything about it all.to call domestic guys boiler monkeys isn't fair,I know many commercial lads you would stic in a house that wouldn't know why a s/y plan is,3 t rule.

This is the reason experiance counts for a lot , a RGI just into the trade coudn't possibly have the hands on experiance as one who has been in the trade a number of years.

 

[knowallaboutgas]

Most don't appreciate the merits of a properly trained plumbing & heating engineer , repairing boilers & installing combis is a far cry from the 'real world' of what should be expected of this trade , let most RGIs loose in a plantroom & they would be lost , ask most on here to install a bank of boilers with proper control & i can forsee a lot of head scratching. , lets not get into ad-hoc conections , split flow & return common headers , common header with injection manifold , advantages of close coupled tee arrangements (primary/secondary) , lead lag arrangements , boiler sequencing , primary ring main with injection , correct installation of an HE boiler when added to a conventional bank , avoidance of back end corrosion , gas boosters , commercial strength testing/tightness testing , cutting threading & welding steel pipe , lead burning (herringbone/thumbnail) , i could go on........puts the plumbing & heating trade into some sort of perspective don't you think? ..................anyway , back to those clever domestic boiler monkeys on here with their fans , PCBs , flow switches...................

This is a DIY forum for domestic related works,many are not interested in your commercial drivel.

 

[Biggles..]

Yes and no,it could be said that A mainly commercial guy going into a house to fit a cooker could well be just as out of his depth as a CCC.both have the knowledge but neither the experience.

We have 2 apprentices, one does disabled adaptations/washrooms/domestic the other does schools/hospitals/MOD. Both will be timeserver but neither will be able to do each others job.There days at college will count for absolutely nothing, I could have a non college guy that would know just as much.

I used to have to teach graduates before letting them lose in various jobs,clever guys but non had any common sense nor hand skills.the new lad that hadnt got his place on a course yet could far out perform the others not just in theoretical testing but with tools.the end result was we found people that gain so called academically levels/apprentaships tend to rely solely on the merit of these pieces of paper.

 

[gasafengineer]

Maybe slightly over the top with my postings but just trying to make a point.

What i object to is the way some of these 'RGIs' on here talk to the DIYers , the self importance of these types makes my skin crawl , most of these are the ones who have come into the trade @ a later stage in life & feel they have to beat their chest , i would bet most of these scrawl through the 'how to repair combi boilers' book in answer to most boiler issues posted on here , there is a few good guys on here too ,yourself , 45years , namsag , vulcan...some of the oil guys , but it does'nt take much to tell the difference between these types & the fools , i could name names but you know who you are.

 

[Nige F]

Let me make it quite clear, the Plumbing trade is in decline since the slump of 08, with 1000s of site Plumbers looking for work. But good luck to you all, you'll need it!!

Absolute rubbish, i see on average 10 CV's from time serv ed plumbers on a weekly basis,most are absolutely useless and think they deservve to walk straight into a job because of an old C&G qualification that they did years ago.
Time served are no better than most CC's nowadays.

Very True - my old C+G is not up to the modern standard - Shame the OP is one of the few trainees in Sussex - and not too far from me - but I just don`t do it anymore One thing I would suggest is look towards Crawley/Horsham/ Gatwick - there`s FA happening in E sussex - apart from Undertakers being flat out

 

[Nige F]

I used to have to teach graduates before letting them lose in various jobs,clever guys but non had any common sense nor hand skills.the new lad that hadnt got his place on a course yet could far out perform the others not just in theoretical testing but with tools.the end result was we found people that gain so called academic levels/tend to rely solely on the merit of these pieces of paper.

Just what is happening @ a NHS Hospital near You Be afraid - be very afraid - the day of the Dehydrated , dying patient is with us now - I`m not joking . Just another day in little britain

 

[transam]

All 3 of u ( nigel F , Icgs , gasafenginer ) make valid points !
IMO
pencil pudhers & paper shufflers have taken over every thing , u often come across many who can talk a good job . but would be incapable of doing it ( maybe ?)

I come across some brilliant clued up engineers most of them have no formal qualifications what so ever , many to an extent are self taught
inovation , invention its all there , so where do u find them , go to Santa Pod , go to a classic bike race , go to a custom car show , the fella who designed & built his own engine in his garden shed ( & I mean designed ),
In this trade I have also had the privilige to work with & talk to some extremeley clued up & clever fellas , only trouble is many times u only realise it years later !! I doubt any of em had written qualifications .
Many of the written qualifications dished out in the consruction industry prove what ? that u can read & write ??? may be ??