Part P notification from April 2013

[flameport]

The new document applies to England, and 'building work carried out on excepted energy buildings in Wales' which is defined here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/3019/schedule/made
but as that definition excludes virtually everything including residences, shops, offices showrooms and more, it therefore applies to nothing.

Wales presumably will have to use the older version. Or perhaps nothing at all.

 

[SaladFingers]

From a personal perspective, I would make everything notifiable!

Why?

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

From a personal perspective, I would make everything notifiable!

Why?

Then there would be documented evidence of who performed what.

 

[SaladFingers]

From a personal perspective, I would make everything notifiable!

Why?

Then there would be documented evidence of who performed what.

And to what effect will that have? Anyone can come by and touch it after.

Notification hasn't changed a thing, hence the relaxation.

 

[SimonH2]

I have read with interest the comments about now Part P is to up-grade to BS7671:2008 Amendment 1. This means that before April and in Wales to comply with Part P we must still comply with BS7671:2004?

You are getting confused. Part P does not say anything about BS7671, and relaxing the notification requirements (there's no change to Part P BTW) doesn't change anything.

In practice, complying with BS7671 is the simplest way of demonstrating compliance with Part P - but there is no compunction to if you can comply by another route. All Part P says is that electrical work has to be safe ! The guidance notes, which are not part of the law do mention BS7671 - but as I say, that's guidance, not law (though complying with official guidance is likely to be a very good defence should something happen !).

So does that mean in Wales we still need to bond in the bathroom?

The changes to notification requirements do not change anything regarding the details of how an installation should be done. You'll still be working to the wiring regs (unless you've chosen another route to compliance) so nothing changes there.

What Part P did was to cause work to be hidden like the smugglers of yesteryear and US prohibition is fostered an underground work force.

Indeed. I strongly suspect there has been a lot of "underground" & DIY work done that's in breach of the BR. The sad thing is that between the regs themselves, and the misinformation that some people have put out in order to drum up more work, I suspect that quite a few people will have done work without asking for advice as they would have done had they not done it "under the radar". To that extent, I can't help thinking that the notification requirements of the BR were counter productive - IMO it's worse to make it so someone is afraid to ask for advice.

 

[AdamCH]

there's no change to Part P BTW

Do you mean that there is no change to the building regs legislation? When people refer to Part P they usually mean the Approved Docs. It may be that the regs haven't changed but if the guidance on what you have to do to demonstrate compliance with the regs changes then to all practical purposes there has been a change.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it BS7671 only rises above guidance if legislation or a trades body requires you to comply with it.

Surely taking huge areas out of notification is a very significant change to Part P?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do you mean that there is no change to the building regs legislation?

There is change to the notification list.
Instead of a list of work which is not notifiable there is now a list of work which IS notifiable.

When people refer to Part P they usually mean the Approved Docs.

They are mistaken.

It may be that the regs haven't changed but if the guidance on what you have to do to demonstrate compliance with the regs changes then to all practical purposes there has been a change.

There is no change to part P.
It is just that fewer jobs are notifiable.

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it BS7671 only rises above guidance if legislation or a trades body requires you to comply with it.

Depends what 'rises above' means.
Guidance is guidance.
Adhering to BS7671 is one way of demonstrating compliance with part P.
Guidance documents are, presumably, written for people who have trouble understanding the law.
Unfortunately sometimes they seem to be written by these same people.

Surely taking huge areas out of notification is a very significant change to Part P?

I wouldn't call it a huge change but part P is unaltered in requiring that electrical work is carried out to ensure safety.
Having to inform the Local Authority - or not - is irrelevant.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

there's no change to Part P BTW

Do you mean that there is no change to the building regs legislation?

I doubt it, because there is going to be. There has to be, because it is the legislation which defines what is notifiable, not the non-legislative guidance on how to comply with the legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/3119/contents/made

When people refer to Part P they usually mean the Approved Docs.

Then they are usually wrong.

Surely taking huge areas out of notification is a very significant change to Part P?

No - Part P was, and remains, completely unconnected to notification, and it has not changed.

 

[AdamCH]

Okay

So see if I have this right.

Part P is:
"P1: Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

Which isn't changing.

What is changing is the Building Regs Clause 12 (6) which covers notification & self cert etc?

In that correct?

So is it necessary to comply with building regs for work that isn't notifiable?

 

[AdamCH]

double post

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So is it necessary to comply with building regs for work that isn't notifiable?

Does Part P say that that part only applies to work which is notifiable?

 

[AdamCH]

So is it necessary to comply with building regs for work that isn't notifiable?

Does Part P say that that part only applies to work which is notifiable?

Effectively what I was asking. Putting aside whether following british standards etc is a good idea, presumably it isn't an offence - unlike not complying with notifiable work?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[AdamCH]

Okay

So if all work in an in scope context is covered even if it isn't notifiable then what happens if a DIY'er completed a poor non notifiable installation?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Part P is:
"P1: Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

Along with the list of properties to which it applies, THAT'S IT!

Which isn't changing.

Correct.

What is changing is the Building Regs Clause 12 (6) which covers notification & self cert etc?
In that correct?

Yes.

So is it necessary to comply with building regs for work that isn't notifiable?

Of course it is.
I shall assume something was lost in the translation of the question.

The Building Regulations are THE LAW.

Some work - you can do if you are competent - without notifying the LA.
Some work - you can do if you are competent - but you must notify the LA before you start.
ALL WORK - you must ensure that "reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury."

It's like driving -
Some roads - you may drive at 70mph.
Some roads - you may only drive at 20mph.
All roads - you must obey the law and drive safely.