part p what is it?

[hollytree]

Ok, I have a question and sorry if you have answered it but I do not fully understand all this part p stuff.
My builder has finished a kitchen extension for me and is now saying he can not get the part p signed off as his electrian is not part p qualified. Are you saying I can get the building surveyor/labc to come back again and test/sign off for part p. And the rest of the house does not have to be included in the sign off. Or have I just missed the point. Hope someone can help me.
________________________
moderator

please note 20 which is here

your post has been split

 

[securespark]

There's shed-loads of stuff here on Part P. Do a search. And talk direct to your LABC, they'll help answer your specific queries.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ok, I have a question and sorry if you have answered it but I do not fully understand all this part p stuff.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm

My builder has finished a kitchen extension for me and is now saying he can not get the part p signed off as his electrian is not part p qualified.

And presumably you did not make it a condition of the contract that he would use a registered electrician and provide a certificate?
Technically he is in breach of the law by not notifying LABC before he did the work, but you can probably guess the chances of him being prosecuted for it.

Are you saying I can get the building surveyor/labc to come back again and test/sign off for part p.

No - it's too late for that - a proper inspection can no longer be done as all the cabling will now be covered up.

Or have I just missed the point. Hope someone can help me.

I think you may have missed the boat, and fallen victim to a combination of your lack of awareness of the law and a builder prepared to exploit that.

As securespark says - talk to your LABC. It might also be worth contacting Trading Standards.

 

[plugwash]

surely if he is having an extention built LABC would have been approving the whole job which would obviously have included electrics. so surely its up to them to check it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Depends on what was on the plans submission...

Also, worth noting that if Building Regs approval was granted before 01/01/2005, then Part P does not apply. But you should still get an Electrical Installation Certificate from the builder in respect of the electrical works.

 

[Mr Winston]

Also, worth noting that if Building Regs approval was granted before 01/01/2005, then Part P does not apply.

Only if it were Full Approval (ie unconditional).

Full approval and Conditional approval are different and Building notice is no approval at all

I think the works need to also have been started before 1st Jan '05 for this exemption to be applicable

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The start date exemption, AFAIK, was for purely electrical work that would otherwise have become notifiable.

There is also a general period following approval (2 years??) in which building regs changes are not retroactive, and I've always assumed that this would be from the date of full approval....

 

[Mr Winston]

The start date exemption, AFAIK, was for purely electrical work that would otherwise have become notifiable.

Im not 100% sure i understand what your saying with this point as if it were notifiable work before 1st Jan then it wouldnt have need an application for building regs.

If the electrics were part of an application fully approved and started before 1st jan then part p didnt have any impact on the approval (ie the electrics would not be required to be inspected/approved as part of the building work)

but if the application is a building notice or conditional approval started after 1st jan then part p is in full effect

this is outlined in the transitional provisions of the building regulations for the introduction of part p.

a building regs application needs to be started within 3 years to be valid.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The start date exemption, AFAIK, was for purely electrical work that would otherwise have become notifiable.

Im not 100% sure i understand what your saying with this point as if it were notifiable work before 1st Jan then it wouldnt have need an application for building regs.

Badly phrased - sorry. What I meant was that work which was only electrical in nature, and had therefore not been subject to Building Regs beforehand, remained exempt from them provided the contract had been let before 01/01/2005, and the work was finished by 31/03/05.

If the electrics were part of an application fully approved and started before 1st jan then part p didnt have any impact on the approval (ie the electrics would not be required to be inspected/approved as part of the building work)

but if the application is a building notice or conditional approval started after 1st jan then part p is in full effect

That's not accurate - the work doesn't have to have been started, it just has to have been notified and approved before 01/01/05 (and in some cases only notified by then, not even approved). It does not need to have been started.

this is outlined in the transitional provisions of the building regulations for the introduction of part p

Indeed it is - if you read sub-paragraphs 3 & 4 of the Transitional Provisions here: Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004 you'll see that it says absolutely nothing about the work having to have been started...

a building regs application needs to be started within 3 years to be valid.

Thanks for that...

 

[Mr Winston]

If the electrics were part of an application fully approved and started before 1st jan then part p didnt have any impact on the approval (ie the electrics would not be required to be inspected/approved as part of the building work)

but if the application is a building notice or conditional approval started after 1st jan then part p is in full effect

That's not accurate - the work doesn't have to have been started, it just has to have been notified and approved before 01/01/05 (and in some cases only notified by then, not even approved). It does not need to have been started.

this is outlined in the transitional provisions of the building regulations for the introduction of part p

Indeed it is - if you read sub-paragraphs 3 & 4 of the Transitional Provisions here: Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004 you'll see that it says absolutely nothing about the work having to have been started...

nice link - i wasnt aware that theSI's were that freely available on line

but have a look at the sections youve quoted - particularly the first line of sub-paragraph 3 of the Transitional Provisions

kinda changes the accuracy of my post dont you think?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

but have a look at the sections youve quoted - particularly the first line of sub-paragraph 3 of the Transitional Provisions

kinda changes the accuracy of my post dont you think?

Yes it does, just as I said above - your post wasn't 100% accurate, because if you look at the transitional provisions they say that submissions had to be made before 01/01/05, but say nothing about work needing to be started before then...

So I guess the full message to hollytree is that if the plans for the extension were submitted and approved last year, then there is no requirement for the electrics to conform to Part P, or to need a completion notice. But they should still be certified as compliant with BS7671 by somebody competent to do so.

If the whole enterprise post-dates 2004, then the situation outlined previously still applies..

 

[Mr Winston]

excellent work BAS i think we agree

it looks like there a three scenarios -

1. If an application is fully approved before jan 1st then part p does not affect the works.

2. If the application is conditionally approved or a building notice and construction started before 1st jan then part p does not affect the works

3. But if the application is still subject to a conditional approval or is a building notice on 1st jan and the works did not start before 1st jan then part p must be complied with.


Some investigation for you to do there hollytree, but as BAS says even if part p does not affect the electrics the installer should be competent and issue a BS7671 certificate.

 

[chrislangham]

Dear All,
Part P is a Building Regulation requirement for Domestic Electrical systems, designed to increase the safety of domestic wiring systems.
It is currently in force.
You may carry out electrical work yourself, providing that you first notify your local Authority Building regulations department beforehand, who will arrange to have your work inspected.
The other wayis to have the work carried out by a "competent person" registered with one of the competent person schemes, ie NAPIT, NICEIC, BSI, ECA.

Chris (NAPIT Approved installer, Part P Registered)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Thank you for informing us of that - I don't think anybody had any idea what it was

Dear All,
Part P is a Building Regulation requirement for Domestic Electrical systems, designed to increase the safety of domestic wiring systems.

You really have been brainwashed, haven't you.....

You may carry out electrical work yourself, providing that you first notify your local Authority Building regulations department beforehand, who will arrange to have your work inspected.

Not all work is notifiable.

 

[hollytree]

Thank you for all the advise. I will speak to the local LABC (who have already visited so have been notified of the work) and gently point out full approval was given before 1 Jan 2005 and that if really necessary they can sign the part P (if all OK). Then we can get the electrics certified by a qualified electrican. Thank you very much.