partp- consumer unit change

[ebee]

It`s a difficult one because it`s priced along with something else to start with ".............. to circuit board" (I would not expect an Electrician to refer to the consumer unit as a "circuit board").

Whether it`s shown seperate or included in the price is probably a matter of taste for different contractors.

Lets say I run a contracting business then a new law is put in place putting new obligations and costs on me. How do I spread it amongst my customers?

I decide to register rather than go thru the prenotifying to LABC route.

Let`s, for now, soley take the registration, assessment & notification costs involved.

Do I divide the costs per customer total or per customer only needing notification or as a percentage of my total overheads for all customers.

Do I show it seperately or include it in the price.

Three different ways of calculating it and two different ways of charging for it.

The way I choose may not be the way someone else chooses but that not make me right and another wrong.

Without seeing the whole contract it is difficult to answer this.

And I`ve only touched on the simple variations of expenses since Part P came into force.

 

[ebee]

Sorry, I`m not really being helpfull with that one but I don`t think there`s an easy answer.

I think your meeting with the Trading Standards might be more rewarding & enlightening

 

[annemarie]

It`s a difficult one because it`s priced along with something else to start with ".............. to circuit board" (I would not expect an Electrician to refer to the consumer unit as a "circuit board").

.

But the pre-installation visit was not from a qualifed electrician! He did not notice that the existing CU did not have enough space for new circuits.

Anyway. We have been ripped of whatever way you look at it. I'm just trying to work out if the quote is nonsense too and we could reasonably try to claim compensation.

 

[annemarie]

Sorry, I`m not really being helpfull with that one but I don`t think there`s an easy answer.

I think your meeting with the Trading Standards might be more rewarding & enlightening

No the answer didn't really help
I'm pursuing a civil claim whilst waiting to hear if they are doing criminal one. The details of errors in quotes to me are small fry in all of this.

 

[annemarie]

It`s a difficult one because it`s priced along with something else to start with ".............. to circuit board" (I would not expect an Electrician to refer to the consumer unit as a "circuit board").

.

You'll note they also refer multiple times to the 'fuse box' rather than CU. Even I have picked up that lingo now

 

[Cremeegg]

I'm glad you're getting somewhere with this.

To my mind any certification costs should be included in the price. If you are registered and do many notifiable jobs a year the total cost is only likely to be £5-£10 per job - hardly worth itemising. If you are not registered and in some areas can pay LABC £350 plus per job then I would itemise it.

Part of the sale of my services is that I am registered so all notifications etc I will do for you - nothing for you to worry about - all certificated etc etc. I do in conversation make sure my customers are aware of the overall costs of some of my overheads - meters costs, calibration, annual assessment costs, books, guidance notes, British Standards etc. So they know that my hourly rate doesnt go straight into my beer allowance.

£130 for certification is, for a one off notification to LABC, probably on the low side of average.

£130 for certification for a registered electrician is a rip off. Say his scheme membership costs him £350 a year and £2.50 to notify each job. Say one notifiable job a week as a not very busy kitchen fitter then its under £10 a job in total. £120 for filling out a certificate - has he got any jobs for me!

You shouldn't have to pay twice - the CU change and kitchen works should all go on one notification - you don't pay to notify each item within a job just per job.

 

[annemarie]

I'm glad you're getting somewhere with this.


You shouldn't have to pay twice - the CU change and kitchen works should all go on one notification - you don't pay to notify each item within a job just per job.

Getting somewhere slowly!

The charging twice was just to illustrate that I was told by C and O that every electrician charged about £100 for Part P work as a flat charge so it was to our advantage to get them to do all the work, rather than have some of it done in advance but it looks as if that was bunkum too.

So altogether our CU cost us £140 for additional bonding (don't know if it needed that or if it was in fact done) + £100 (for moving) + £350 (to upgrade to one with larger slots) = £590 (plus vat)

 

[Cremeegg]

Plenty of bunkum - and probably not the last you will discover!

Very difficult if not impossible to price without seeing but the bonding upgrade price isn't that far off an average around here. Distances and bonding runs can bump up the price.

Again depending on layout size location etc £450 to move and upgrade need not be that far from the truth. But given what we know of this job its probably way off!!

 

[Spark123]

Without getting too involved in the pricing side of things, you have paid to have the CU changed, and Part P complied with. This involved notification to your LABC. This doesn't sound like it has been done which is fraud.
The person who did this did not certify all the circuits he has modified as safe (every circuit in the new CU.) I'm not saying they are unsafe, just without inspecting, testing and certifying them how can they be deemed safe. The work which he has carried and has not certified does not comply with BS7671 (IEE regs).
Without complying with BS7671, how can he claim to have complied with P1 of part P, "P1 Reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury. "

 

[ebee]

annemarie,

Sorry if some bits of my posts didn`t help, although I`m sure some did too.

It`s difficult to judge, at a distance without knowing all relevant facts.

However, I`m sure that from my posts and the posts of others too, that you`ll see that some questions need an answer.

My overview is that it needs investigating properly and hopefully with guidance from TSO and LABC it will be followed thru.
I feel that you`ll take it far and not be fobbed off and hope that you do just that.

You`re not only looking after your own interests but potentially also those of quite a few more members of the public who`ve paid good money.

Keep it up and do not let the matter rest untill resolved properly.

Regards,
Ebee

 

[comms]

part p certificate etc as above £140

I do list part P notification on my quotations but do not charge for it why........ because over the year & the quantity of notifiable jobs completed in a year, it works out less than a quid per job. So i figure that it's made up over the year on materials here & there anyway .

new 40A supply from fuse box £200

For the cooker?
Difficult to price without knowing distance from cu to end of circuit & routing of cable.

move fuse box to higher level £100

A fair price, but surely non chargable seen as they charged to replace the cu. If not thats bumped the cu change up to £450 which with bonding & tails upgrade is a fair price (i start cu changes at £350 inc vat).

2xfuse spur for d/w +hood, 1x s/socket for f/f £160
3x extra double sockets £180

Again a fair price so long as testing & certification is included. (i take it they were extending existing ringmain)

new consumer unit £350

Standard going start rate at the moment for install/test/cert, but i always stipulate any inherant faults that come to light upon testing, of existing circuits will be chargable when repaired.
Of course the bonding will have to be upgraded if undersized at extra cost.

Hope it gets sorted.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Any news?

 

[ebee]

Is there an update yet?

 

[annemarie]

Well, building control came our 2 weeks ago and one of their electricians arived the next day. They figured out which circuit was which on the consumer unit. The electrician seemed to have made up the fuses he used in the kitchen.... the new kitcken ring was documented on the kewtech installation certificate as having a 32A fuse, but in fact had a 20A, and the hob a 40A but had a 32A, and the double oven a 32A but had in fact a 20A. I tried to establish of this was a problem but the electrician didn't think so. I can't however establish WHY he would have just made it up?
Anyway, the new consumer unit needed remedial work because it was noted that the shower didn't have a pull-cord in the bathroom and so couldn't be isolated. There were also some stickers missing of the consumer unit saying about two different colours of wiring. And they remarked that despite the new consumer unit it is absolutely full so we have no room for expansion. The old kitchen ring circuit which has windowns next to the garden is not on the RCD side of the consumer unit- seemingly maybe it should be as we sometimes would use electrical things out in the garden from it. But we would use an extension lead with an RCD in it. Generally the tests of the circuits were fine.
We still have not had the report from building control but I've been trying to chase it up as we NEED a new shower!
I'm not sure how far Trading Standards have taken things.
I haven't been speaking to Core and Ore for weeks and they are not obliged to tell me whether or not they have informed other customers. Hopefully trading standards will put pressure on them to do this.
So that's my news for now. Thanks for asking

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can't however establish WHY he would have just made it up?

Because he did all of his inspection and testing and form-filling in the van, or in front of his TV that evening.

But we would use an extension lead with an RCD in it.

That does not change the requirement for the socket(s) to be RCD protected.