Periodic Electrical Check

[DJM]

Having looked more closely at my plethora of different aged CUs under the stairs as a result of trying to sort out cooker cabling requirements, I am now considering getting a Periodic Inspection Report done at the same time as getting a quote for some kitchen work. I have a couple of questions

1) Is a PIR worth it, or would it just tell me what I alredy know that my system is old and doesn't meet the current guidelines?

2) Would it be more useful and cost effective to get the sparks to do a general review to cover dangerous installations?

2) Is getting a report notifiable? Do I need to tell anybody (Elec supplier, Council, insurer, Uncle Tom Cobly etc) about the findings of the report?

3) What happens to the copy of teh report held by the contractor doing the work? Does he pass it on to some central body?

4) What are the legal implications on addressing the issues in the report - ie how soon and must I?

5) Is there any way of choosing a good sparks - other than Find an expert below (which has none listed in my area) or NICEIC website?

Any help appreciated

 

[JohnD]

(1) If your installation is in a bad order, an electrician will recognise it within a minute or so. Spending more money on detailed inspection and testing will be wasted if he can immediately see it all needs to be replaced.

(5) start by asking friends, neighbours, colleagues, other people in building trades if they would recommend someone local who they consider to be reliable and do good-quality work. Then see if they are members of a self-certification scheme and do the sort of work you want.

If you have the chance to look at work done in your friends homes by the same person this will be an advantage. A Reference Site Visit will tell you a lot.

Get 2 or 3 of the recommended people in to give you a price. Tell them all the same thing so you can compare fairly.

Don't go with one you have a "bad feeling about" or who doesn't listen to you.

 

[Adam_151]

1) Is a PIR worth it, or would it just tell me what I alredy know that my system is old and doesn't meet the current guidelines?

Depends, if your installation is pretty crap, it might just be an expensive waste of paper telling you that, but on the other hand if its pretty good but just dated it could be worthwhile because it'll tell you exactly where the defeats lie and how bad there

2) Would it be more useful and cost effective to get the sparks to do a general review to cover dangerous installations?

Quite likely, ask him to have a nose around for 15 mins or so and see if he thinks a PIR would be worthwhile or if something else would be more appropiate

2) Is getting a report notifiable? Do I need to tell anybody (Elec supplier, Council, insurer, Uncle Tom Cobly etc) about the findings of the report?

No, and only if any of those asking for a PIR was the reason you were getting one done

3) What happens to the copy of teh report held by the contractor doing the work? Does he pass it on to some central body?

He will keep in a file, its possible that if he is a member of a body that the inspector might have a look at it (and if one of the 'selected jobs' your installation as well) during the yearly inspection

4) What are the legal implications on addressing the issues in the report - ie how soon and must I?

There is no requirement for you to comply with BS7671, but legal outcome would be influenced if anything happened and it could be proven that you knew about dangerous issues and failed to address them

5) Is there any way of choosing a good sparks - other than Find an expert below (which has none listed in my area) or NICEIC website?

If looking on the NIC site, make sure you look for an approved contractor as opposed to a domestic installer (AC are approved by the NIC to do PIR work under the NIC name, DI arn't and a PIR by one would be out the scope of their NIC registration), maybe try and find one that lists testing as amongst their specilalities, especially if they also do commericial testing (there are some firms who just do testing and nothing else - this can cut down on conflicts of interest, etc...)

Any help appreciated

Pleased to be of help

 

[DJM]

Thanks for your help. I might take a few photos and put them up so you can all have a laugh.

 

[JohnD]

We like pictures

 

[DJM]

Well got some pics, but cant see how to insert them?

Do I need to host them elsewhere and put a link? If so have no where to host them so will have to go without [/url]

 

[RF Lighting]

You need to use an image hosting site such as www.photobucket.com. It is a completely free site. You just upload your images to the site, and post the link the website creates.

 

[Taylortwocities]

NICEIC arent the only shop in town now. Try www.napit.org.uk for a refreshing change

TTC

 

[DJM]

Well I have registered with Photbucket and it is so slow I thought it was broken.

Anyway, following pictures are : an overall picture of all CUs, close up of oldest (MEM) showing fuses, and close up of next largest showing fuses.
Still waiting for the pictures of teh earth to upload so may add that later.
Comments welcome

 

[JohnD]

Hee hee! you think that's old?

Doesn't look bad on the whole. You've even got PVC cables, not perished rubber! Probably some of your circuits will need work, for example the lighting circuits in an oldish installation may lack earth conductors, and your cooker or shower circuits may be undersized. If you have Outbuildings the submains will probably need to be renewed. But it does not look in need all being ripped out (we have much worse ones for you to look at - e.g. //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=73671&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 ). The MEM box I don't like, as you have to open it to change fuses, maybe poking your hands in there in the dark.

If you want a lot more sockets, especially in the kitchen, it way be simpler to run a new ring than to fiddle about with the old one.

When you have a new CU fitted by a proper installer, he will have to test all the circuits connected to it, which will have to be brought up to a proper standard, as will the Main Earth Bonds and Supplementary Bonding in your bathroom. Bonding is quite easy and if you are handy you can do it yourself - it is not notifiable work.

What's that grey unit with the very big cables on the LHS? It looks big enough to run my gold smelting furnace (I used to work in the Brinks-Mat warehouse at Heathrow ).

The main Earth could do with upgrading. That sheath clamp is pretty ropey. If you ask your electricity supplier they will probably give you a PME either free for for £50 or so. Write to them without delay.

I can't clearly see the earthing arrangements. You could do with a 16mm G&Y to each consumer unit, 10mm Main Bonds to Gas, Electricity and Water. It would probably be easier to do this with a nice big earth block close to the meter, this will give you plenty of room, and you can also leave a 16mm G&Y tail ready to be connected to the new Supplier's earthing point when/if provided (these are typical sizes, they can be calculated but these are usually fine).

I can't see the earth terminals in the MEM box, I hope there is one concealed by the lip of the enclosure?

You have quite a lot of circuits. Get a good big CU with plenty of room for expansion later. If you are prosperous, RCBOs are a better solution than a split-load configuration.

p.s. you need to label all those fuses. Buy yourself some white tape and a permanent marker.

 

[Bowness72]

DOH !
that even worse one is mine

 

[Adam_151]

That 45A BS1361 fuseholder on the central grey wylex board, not sure it should be in that slot, AFAIK those boards were only made to take one circuit in excess of 30A and that was on the fuseholder on its own to the right of the switch? whats under that cover and what does it supply? you haven't got two electric showers have you?

Also, those tails into that board... do they go into it via separate holes, it certainly looks like they do?, is there a thin slot cut between the holes?

No overall main switch either

What size are the fuese in the MEM unit? my monitor isn't great but they look like red dots on most, which would mean 30A, but the cables on some of them look like 1mm²


Just a few bits that no one else seems to have commented on yet

 

[DJM]

Thanks for your comments.
Attached is a pick of the earthing. It's not brilliantly clear, but might help.

Some questions answered below, others I will check tonight.

That 45A BS1361 fuseholder on the central grey wylex board, not sure it should be in that slot, AFAIK those boards were only made to take one circuit in excess of 30A and that was on the fuseholder on its own to the right of the switch? whats under that cover and what does it supply? you haven't got two electric showers have you

Thanks for identifying the manufacturer, I couldnt find a name. Only one electric shower put in before we moved in. Not sure whats connected to the fuse I forgot to uncover. May be the cooker?

If you want a lot more sockets, especially in the kitchen, it way be simpler to run a new ring than to fiddle about with the old one

Plenty of Kitchen sockets already, and positioning is mainly OK, just need a new cooker point I suspect.

What's that grey unit with the very big cables on the LHS? It looks big enough to run my gold smelting furnace (I used to work in the Brinks-Mat warehouse at Heathrow

That runs to the conservatory/utility block and the cables run outside and then to another CU in the utility area.

p.s. you need to label all those fuses. Buy yourself some white tape and a permanent marker.

Started doing that when we moved in, but lost the paper I was doing it on and never got round to it. A job for toomorrow.

What size are the fuese in the MEM unit? my monitor isn't great but they look like red dots on most, which would mean 30A, but the cables on some of them look like 1mm²

Looked at the original picture and it's not exactly clear - will check when I get home - but I think the left two are 30A and the next three are 5A and the final one 20A

 

[JohnD]

The earths are a bit of a tangle, get yourself one of these and tidy it up. Easy peasy.

The "in" and the "out" cable of your Utility Block Switchfuse look bigger than I can see anywhere else. Where does the supply come from?

 

[DJM]

The earths are a bit of a tangle, get yourself one of these and tidy it up. Easy peasy.]

Hidden behind the rats nest of tails ther is a small one of those, but could definitely be tidied. Can I do that myself os is that notifiable?

The "in" and the "out" cable of your Utility Block Switchfuse look bigger than I can see anywhere else. Where does the supply come from?

I am obviously being thick, but can you clarify? Both armoured cables run to the utility room. The tails go back to the same source as all the other three CUs on that wall.