1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Pitch roof, loft trusses clarification. Can I remove or cut a trusses to introduce a beam

Discussion in 'Roofing and Guttering' started by Gio I, 13 Apr 2020.

  1. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Hi,

    I was taking into consideration to remove my chimney breast and an engineer advised to run a beam between the front and rear wall.

    After my survey, I got to the conclusion that I could run a 152x89 without lowering the ceiling at first floor but this can happen only If I can cut some joist as per the attached photos.

    Can you also advise why I have cross trusses and if those can be cut or are part of the structure roof?

    Maybe the photo will clarify what I'm trying to say as 2 of these have already been cut in the past and do not reach the other end.

    Any help would be appreciated
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Sponsored Links
  3. cdbe

    cdbe

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2009
    Messages:
    695
    Thanks Received:
    101
    Location:
    Oldham
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    They're ceiling binders, they connect the ceiling joists together to stop them twisting. Tie it back in when you make good the hole in the ceiling where the chimney breast was.
     
  4. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    To have one flat floor. Would nothing between the joist work on the same way? Can I cut the blinder on the spot as per my sketch as the beam will be g
    Higher than the blinder or actually will only need to cut 50mm as 100mm from the house and 50mm on the blinder. Can reinforce with a steel plate on both side. What do you think?
     
  5. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks
     
  6. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I have just removed the old laths and plaster ceiling and the ceiling joist condition is very bad with most of them worst than a banana. completely twisted. As I would like to use the loft for storage or even make a room in the future. I was thinking to use my chimney breast beam to support new 50x200 joist as per attached image.

    My question is can joist been split and not connected to roof trusses or this is part or structure to help roof not to collapse

    My idea is to completely remove binders as well and make a more clean flooring.


    upload_2020-5-2_8-14-6.png
     
  7. catlad

    catlad

    Joined:
    29 Jul 2011
    Messages:
    3,992
    Thanks Received:
    540
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    If there is a central / spine wall below then I don't see why you can't remove the binders and make a new floor, try to connect your new floor to your rafter feet and wall plate.
    The two vertical pieces of timber are probably there to stop that collar twisting, so might be able to modify that.
     
  8. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I will attach more photos when ceiling completely exposed. Thanks
     
  9. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Here you photos and video
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Sponsored Links
  11. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    More photos but not available to upload video
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    More photos from below
     

    Attached Files:

  13. noseall

    noseall

    Joined:
    2 Feb 2006
    Messages:
    38,194
    Thanks Received:
    2,452
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    As said, cut the ceiling binder and reattach it to the new steel beam. All you need is to fill out the webs with timber then use a hanger or angle brackets. Drill a couple of holes in the web before offering it up.
    Or just ignore that binder and fit a new one directly into the web.
     
    Last edited: 3 May 2020
  14. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom

    I may not have expressed myself very well. On the sketch above the 2 blue line are 152x89 beams which has been designed to support the chimney stuck and the original design was to crank the ends to sit the beam just above the binders. As I have now remove the old ceiling and just realised how in bad shape the ceiling joist are, I was thinking to replace the old 50*100 joist with a 50x200 joists which would make my loft floor much more stronger and in the future could use it as workshop or deposit. Now my question is. Are these ceiling joist and binder part of the roof structure which keep the roof together avoiding it to open and collapse or can I remove the old one. and install the beam without any crank but just flat on top of the stud wall and connect the new joist at right and left side of the beam without any binders?
     
  15. noseall

    noseall

    Joined:
    2 Feb 2006
    Messages:
    38,194
    Thanks Received:
    2,452
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    A ceiling binder won't be necessary with deeper full spec' joists, no.
     
  16. Gio I

    Gio I

    Joined:
    22 Nov 2019
    Messages:
    246
    Thanks Received:
    2
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Apologize for my English but did not get your answer. can you explain it in a more basic way? Thanks :)
     
  17. tony1851

    tony1851

    Joined:
    23 Feb 2012
    Messages:
    9,592
    Thanks Received:
    1,431
    Location:
    Manchester
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The ceiling joists effectively tie together the feet of the rafters on opposite sides of the roof to make a triangular structure.

    You can replace the ceiling joists with deeper 8x2s which - as well as tying the rafter feet - would also form your new floor. BUT, if the new joists are split by the 152 x 89, they will not be as effective at tying the rafter feet together and the roof might spread long-term. 2020-05-03_200041.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 1
Sponsored Links
Loading...

Share This Page