Power cuts ?

[tim west]

Yes, it can be mixed in with uranium and used in reactors i.e. MOX.

Thats true ,, I workedd on the MOX reprocessing Hall at Sellafield in 99 (free lancing with the eld fella )

At the time a lot of Japanese waste was suposed to be coming in!!!!!!!

I aint into all that s**t , All I want to KNOW will we have power cuts this winter...........Shove your Plutonium enrichment / depletion and nuclear s**t up your a**e and argue on what you can`t Google the answer for.

I wont pretend to know anything about it, I know enough in laymans terms, so do you smart a**es know is ther to be power cuts

BTW, If my text appears aggresive, I have drank today

It has digressed a bit from your original post but isnt that a good thing that it has produced 5 pages of discussion, argument call it what you will and taught some of us some new things, and the googling is a necessary thing as to have a discussion without it would probably mean we would all have to be nuclear scientists and probably wouldnt be visiting a diy site anyway

 

[Thermo]

so if its all come from googling does that mean that everyone is a self appointed overnight expert and not really nuclear scientists then

 

[tim west]

Thermo

What I mean is there is no harm in googling , reading articles and bolstering already read information with that, so unless you are a real expert in the field we were discussing you can only give your best judgement at the time.

 

[Spark123]

So what is the answer with the waste? At the moment there are two options. Either dry store or reprocess it.
Dry storing is relatively simple, build a big vault and put the fuel in, leave it for the next generation to sort it out.
Reprocessing it creates waste products, some of which can be stored in containers in large above ground vaults waiting for the radiation to decay or onward removal to underground vaults should they ever be built.

 

[megawatt]

If there are any nuclear physicists contributing please would they make themselves known now otherwise we'll assume that we're all just interested amateurs with a penchant for Googling

 

[megawatt]

Spark123: Read the links I posted earlier, in particular the one from Sheffield University.

 

[tim west]

the bit i'm questioning is, is there a need for safe dumping of the waste with the new techniques of efficient processing?

 

[megawatt]

I'm no expert and none have put their hands up

My understanding is that, irrespective of what is done with the fuel (re-processed or not) there is still radioactive waste at the end of the process to be dealt with.

Shame really

 

[tim west]

Then perhaps i've read it wrong as i was led to believe the waste was near enough harmless having had 99% of the energy removed.

 

[Spark123]

Spark123: Read the links I posted earlier, in particular the one from Sheffield University.

Yeah, although not cheap can maybe be used to deal with plutonium which is only one of the elements created by nuclear reprocessing. The radiation which comes off plutonium is mainly alpha which can be relatively easily contained.
On the other hand, items which give off gamma radiation also have to be dealt with.

 

[joe-90]

Britain has 19 nuclear power stations. Six of them are due to shut in the next eight years, and all of them within thirty years.
It takes about fifteen years to build a new one.
So the way I see it, the best we will do is replace the plants that we already have - so in real terms we stand still, and there will obviously be a shortfall between shutting the old ones down and getting the new ones on line.
So as oil runs out we will have nuclear plants shutting down. Hopefully global warming will give us a few warmer winters.

The other thing that is that we seem incapable of building within budget. Take a look at the Olympics, the Dome, Wembley stadium, Holyrood House - all hopelessly over budget yet they are, in comparison, simple projects compared to a nuclear reactor. Oh and don't forget the decommissioning cost of the old reactors that are shortly going 'off-line'. It's gonna cost megga bucks.

 

[Spark123]

That will only really stand if they replace on a like for like basis. Taking into account the Calder Hall power station generated 200Mw between its 4 reactors and Heysham in contrast (if it were online) which has a combined output of almost 2400Mw between its two reactors.
I'll agree with the cost of decomissioning being an issue.

 

[Space cat]

OK Tim, I read your link myself and it's a reasonable dummies' guide to nuclear fission but I spotted one mistake straight away. The initial neutrons are generated by helium-beryllium fusion thus:

He 4 + Be 9 = C 12 + n.

To make this work, one or both of the nuclei involved must have enough kinetic energy to penetrate the other. Natural alpha particles, being fast moving helium nuclei, fit the bill nicely. For large scale, clean(ish) neutron production you need a helium ion accelerator but you can try making a few at home using the americium 241 from an old smoke alarm.

You do have to contain the fissile material to stop it from blowing itself apart too soon but you don't have to use a U 238 casing for the purpose. It's a popular choice because it's hard and heavy and cheap. It's also dirty because the fission neutrons turn it into radioactive U 239 - but if you wanted a really dirty bomb you would use cobalt 59.

I've also read the article from Sheffield University. So the safest way to store radioactive material is to turn it into insoluble silicate. I'm sure any chemist or geologist could have told us that but I suppose the clever bit is actually doing it.

Nuclear fission will always leave you with something nasty to clean up because the fission products are overloaded with neutrons. They decay in their own time and there's nothing we can do to speed up the process. This decay, which produces 20% of the energy in a nuclear reactor, is a bit of a headache because it can't be turned off. You drop the boron rods and fission ceases instantly but you can't shut down the other 20%.

And so to the original question; will there be power cuts this winter? Sorry, I can't answer that one. I'm only a physicist. My best guess would be no. I suspect it's just political propaganda to prepare the way for a new batch of nuclear power stations.

 

[securespark]

I remember the cuts of the 70's... anyone else?

 

[megawatt]

Oh yes ... Candles everywhere