Query regarding work carried out

[CLCS]

I hope this is the right section for this query, as it's to do with electrics.

To cut a very long story short, if I employ an electrician to fit electrical points in the kitchen, is it reasonable for him to a) leave a mess with only a cursory clear up - even though the kitchen had been stripped the previous day in its entirety and left clean and clear of debris, and b) should he repair the walls after he has finished, or is it usual to expect the householder to employ a plasterer when he's finished?

My kitchen fitters had left the place clean and tidy - when they return on Monday they're going to find a mess, with additional rubble left behind, and an entire wall that needs replastering (and not just skimming - the electricians have literally gouged out areas where they have placed the new sockets). The job has also been left unfinished, with wires hanging out (they even left my boiler unplugged although I called them back to ensure that was plugged in (it is, by my own extension lead!)...they state that the "bonding" has to be done by the kitchen fitters and they'll come back and fit the face plates when all the tiling and kitchen fitting is finished - but I haven't been quoted by the kitchen fitters for "bonding", or for plastering, as there was no need for any of that prior to the electricians making such a mess.

I just want to know if I can ask them to repair the damage, and clear up the mess, or reasonably deduct an amount from the cost in order to get someone else to do those things?

Any advice would be welcome - even if it's to tell me that it's not unreasonable for an electrician to leave a mess and huge gouges in the walls!

I'd include photos but I don't have time to upload them right now.[/img]

 

[EdwardCurrent]

Hello,

I am sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the work that has been carried out by your electrician. However, these matters should have been discussed before work commenced.

Have you tried giving him a calm call and discussing your concerns.

Regards,
Ed

 

[rebuke]

Electricians are generally not plasterers, so I wouldn't necessarily expect them to make good all the chases in walls etc. Personally however, I would expect someone to clear up any mess such as bits of rubble and plaster etc that have come from the wall (how hard is it to have a hoover on the van etc).

If you upload a pic I'm sure people will be able to tell you if he's done a good job or not...

 

[CLCS]

The electrician I engaged had left before I noticed what they'd done - only his assistant was available - and I did point out to him the issues, but when I called the electrician to ask about my boiler being disconnected, he said I'd "accused" his assistant of causing a leak - I hadn't accused him of anything, what I'd done was state a fact - it was obvious - the wiring had been fixed behind the pipes and had created the leak; any way, that was a side issue as the kitchen fitters were supposed to return today and would have been able to sort that out easily enough, but having tried to have a conversation with the electrician about that, it didn't seem the right time to discuss the other issues.

He's got to come back today to pick up his tools - though it's now after 10:30, so I presume he has more than one set, or isn't working today. I did actually discuss the work required, in detail, but I had no idea that he would create such a mess, and therefore no idea that I'd have to specify that he clean up after himself, or make good the repair thereafter. It would seem to me that it is logical that if you gouge out areas in a perfectly good wall, that you are responsible for the repair.

My question really is this: would an electrician normally a) clean up after himself, and b) would he normally fix the walls after fitting new sockets?

 

[CLCS]

Thank you for the replies, both of you.

If it's the case that an electrician would not normally make repairs to the walls, then that is fair enough - although I do think the large gouging, caused by his error of judgment should be fixed by him, and not at cost to me.

I will be speaking to him about the gouging, and also about the fact that the cleaning up is atrocious, when he picks up his tools.

I've tried to upload an image, but it requires me to upload it somewhere else and post an URL, and I don't have any webspace available for that.

 

[JACKC]

Sorry you have had a bad experience with your electrician. Here is how I work. I clear up my mess, I do fill any chasing out but I do let the customer know that I am not a plasterer and professional repairing may be required (usually not reqd if tiling over). This work is priced into the job. I do know a few of my colleagues who charge extra for making good but they do make the customer aware of this in the quote. Hope this helps. Clearing up afterwards in pretty basic and does leave the owners in a tidy envoiroment even if the rest of the work area is a mess. Do you have a written quote for work required. The issue of bonding responsibilites depends on what he was asked to do and under what time scale. He wouldn't hang around while the kitchen fitters finished to connect bonding. They may be responsible for that. You need to have a talk with all concerned.

 

[GaryMo]

The issue of bonding responsibilites depends on what he was asked to do and under what time scale. He wouldn't hang around while the kitchen fitters finished to connect bonding. They may be responsible for that. You need to have a talk with all concerned.

The room is clear, surely the consumers side of incoming services is accessible? It's the electricians responsibility to ensure protective equipotential bonding is in place before carrying out work, not the kitchen fitters.

 

[BS3036]

Of course, 'bonding' is also the name of a type of plaster used to fill chases, so this bit is ambiguous.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[GaryMo]

Of course, 'bonding' is also the name of a type of plaster used to fill chases, so this bit is ambiguous.

Lol, of course it is

 

[RF Lighting]

This is exactly why I don't do domestic work

 

[r.bob]

This is exactly why I do it myself.

 

[securespark]

IF the "bonding" referred to is actually Protective Equipotential Bonding & not plaster, then the spark is bang out of order.

The PEB's should be sorted BEFORE any electrical installation work is carried out, not after, or worse still, leave it to the mercy of kitchen fitters.

Make sure any PEB's are accessible AFTER the kitchen is installed too.

 

[comms]

Plaster..as said you may have had blown/poorly adhered plaster,if so you cant blame the spark for more comming away than you liked.

As for replastering you dont get many sparks plastering their own chases (i make this a bold point on my quotes but do give my cousins number for such work), this is left to the customer to sort out, having said that if it's a small ammount & the customer has been chatty freindly & made copious ammounts of tea, I will base fill the chases for them....moral there is dont **** your sparks off.

Bonding, if he's on about main equipotential bonding to gas/water service pipes, then it's his job to sort it not the kitchen fitters. But if he's on about cross/supplimentary bonding of sink & the like, then hes working to fairly old regs (15th ?) & it's not required.

The wires left hanging out & job not finnished...this is called FIRST FIX & the sparks has done nothing wrong here.......after all if he fitted the sockets & energised the circuit, would the kitchen fitters turned off removed the socket cut in the tiles, refitted the socket tested the circuit & reenergised....in my experience no (unless they are top notch & have a few brain cells), they would have slapped the tiles on up to & flush with the sockets.

Is it normal for an electrician to leave a place untidy after working..........No & it shows a general lack of respect in my view, I was always taught a tidy work place is an efficient work place.

 

[CLCS]

Again, thank you for your replies.

Apart from the area that was severely gouged out (no chasing placed there as the electrician made an error in thinking there was no concrete beam above the door, most of the chasing will be tiled over and/or covered by a splashback or units; I think I was just very irritated by the absolute mess they'd left and the unnecessary gouging alongside the door frame. That area is the most seriously gouged out, and will need replastering (in addition to the areas not covered by tiles/units/splashback), but I think I can accept the cost of that; the kitchen fitters (also electricians, but not NICEIC) have said that they will fit the kitchen lighting for free consequently losing the electrician £165 - so I'll use that to pay for any plastering needed.

Bonding: I think he meant plastering - he's NICEIC qualified, fitted my new consumer unit, and tested the entire system PRIOR to doing the work in the kitchen, so I have no reason not to trust his experience in doing the actual work properly - in fact, it was the reason I chose him, his thoroughness for checking the work out prior to giving me a quote. I don't think he'd be prepared to certify any of the work if he hadn't completed it himself, so I am fairly certain that he didn't mean PEBs as referred to by someone above (however, I don't know, and will, of course, ask him about this when he returns to complete the job). I do not think he is an incompetent electrician, quite the contrary or I wouldn't have employed him - but he is messy and doesn't clean up after himself properly - not something I could have assessed prior to him doing that particular type of work! Yesterday he arrived to collect his tools, all dressed up to go out, and did in fact ask if I wanted him to clean up then - I declined his offer (who'd expect someone to clean up plaster dust whilst wearing a suit?!) and said I'd do it myself (which I would have done that morning had he bothered to collect his tools before 2 pm!)

There were two issues: 1) whether I could expect him to make good the areas he had gouged out, and 2) whether I could expect him to clear up after himself.

I have my answers: 1) No he doesn't have to make good the areas he gouged out, and 2) yes he should have cleaned up after himself.

I do have another query - since the electrician tested the entire system himself prior to fitting the new sockets - is it correct that he should be able to state that the cabling needed changing AFTER he started work? Should he have known this prior given his extensive testing/survey/fitting of new consumer unit? Is it absolutely necessary to have a switch in the kitchen to isolate the kitchen if there is a fault?

For the record, I have no issues with regards to my kitchen fitters - they are clean and tidy, and I feel it's only fair that they should have a work area to return to that is as clean and tidy as they left it - and of course I'll get that done - however, the electrician should have cleaned up after himself - that much is clear from the responses given. Secondly, the plaster was not blown or inadequately applied, that wasn't the issue at all.

And finally - I think not p***ing the customer off is the key to a) getting further work recommended, and b) getting paid quickly once the work is completed!