RCBO query

[SUNRAY]

Yes, you did, but that's a bit like punching someone and then "requesting" that they don't punch you back. It doesn't work like that.

You brought yourself into this row the moment you expressed agreement with Harry Bloomfield saying that I was "jabbering". It does work like that.




OK, so what, in your opinion, is wrong with what I wrote here:



or here (which was another post where you agreed with Harry's categorisation of it as "jabbering"



which turns them into text which is unintelligible, gibberish, or nonsense?




Indeed.

And I've asked them the same that I have asked you.

All of you are welcome, using commonly adopted standards of English comprehension, to show in what way these

• As in a time you'd more likely state in minutes than fractions of an hour? Yes.
  As in only a few minutes? No.
• You said "The thing about a shower, is that they only run for a matter of minutes."
  I asked if you meant a time which would be stated in "minutes" rather than "hours" or fractions of hours, or if you meant just a few minutes.
  If some examples would help, does your "matter of minutes" encompass, say, 20/35/50 minutes, or is it limited to 3/5/10. That sort of thing.
  I didn't think it was that complicated.

are gibberish, or unintelligible nonsense.

If you really want a row I'll do so but in simple terms when I read that post I said out loud "T w a t" and Missus sunray said "What have I done now?" I replied "This idiot on here." She bent over my shoulder and read it then asked "Is he pi55ed or on drugs?"

So that was a private domestic conversation that I had no intention of sharing.

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm glad you agree.

Although that agreement appears to be at odds with your request in #58 and associated complaint in #71,

So you lie?

which indicate that what you think is that when it is you dishing it out, putting up with it is exactly what you want me to do.




Do you think that's what he did? Do you think that he fairly and rationally analysed these:

• As in a time you'd more likely state in minutes than fractions of an hour? Yes.
  As in only a few minutes? No.
• You said "The thing about a shower, is that they only run for a matter of minutes."
  I asked if you meant a time which would be stated in "minutes" rather than "hours" or fractions of hours, or if you meant just a few minutes.
  If some examples would help, does your "matter of minutes" encompass, say, 20/35/50 minutes, or is it limited to 3/5/10. That sort of thing.
  I didn't think it was that complicated.

and decided that they were unintelligible, gibberish, or nonsense?

You agreed with Harry when he said they were, so clearly you think they are.

I await with interest your fair and rational analysis of my words which shows them to be unintelligible.

My fair and rational analysis: No change then?

 

[SUNRAY]

Double post

 

[SUNRAY]

.

 

[morqthana]

And FFS why?

If someone says that showers "only run for a matter of minutes", in what kind of world is it utterly unreasonable and unacceptable for someone else to ask them what they mean by "a matter of minutes"?

Because that is what I asked, but rather than answer it, Harry decided to have a go at it by calling it "jabbering".

And then a bunch of other people piled in.

So now, because, as Sunray said, I shouldn't have to put up with that kind of thing, i.e. I shouldn't have to just sit here and not respond to things like that, we've got 20+ posts, none of which would have been here had Harry initially replied civilly and had others not decided that they too would join in with supporting his uncivil dismissal of my question.

WHY DO YOU, HARRY, AND YOU SUNRAY, AND YOU PETE01, AND YOU JURASSICSPARK, AND WHOEVER WAS THE "OTHER" - WHY DO YOU DO THIS SORT OF THING?

What are you hoping to achieve?

 

[morqthana]

If you really want a row I'll do so but in simple terms when I read that post I said out loud "T w a t" and Missus sunray said "What have I done now?" I replied "This idiot on here." She bent over my shoulder and read it then asked "Is he pi55ed or on drugs?"

I'm neither.

But I am someone who does not appreciate being told that my writing is unintelligible gibberish when it clearly isn't.

And no I don't want a row. That will be you, that will, with your repeated assertions that what I wrote was unintelligible gibberish (assertions which you haven't even tried to justify), and now with the personal insults.

Why do you do this sort of thing? What are you hoping to accomplish?

 

[morqthana]

So you lie?

Where have I lied?

You did join in with support for Harry's categorisation of my question as "jabbering", and you did then turn round and ask me not to bring you into the row you'd willingly joined in.

My fair and rational analysis: No change then?

Really.

You really think that that counts as a fair and rational analysis which shows that this:

• As in a time you'd more likely state in minutes than fractions of an hour? Yes.
  As in only a few minutes? No.
• You said "The thing about a shower, is that they only run for a matter of minutes."
  I asked if you meant a time which would be stated in "minutes" rather than "hours" or fractions of hours, or if you meant just a few minutes.
  If some examples would help, does your "matter of minutes" encompass, say, 20/35/50 minutes, or is it limited to 3/5/10. That sort of thing.
  I didn't think it was that complicated.

is unintelligible gibberish?

Really?

Why do you do this sort of thing? What's your motive?

 

[SUNRAY]

Where have I lied?

You did join in with support for Harry's categorisation of my question as "jabbering", and you did then turn round and ask me not to bring you into the row you'd willingly joined in.




Really.

You really think that that counts as a fair and rational analysis which shows that this:

• As in a time you'd more likely state in minutes than fractions of an hour? Yes.
  As in only a few minutes? No.
• You said "The thing about a shower, is that they only run for a matter of minutes."
  I asked if you meant a time which would be stated in "minutes" rather than "hours" or fractions of hours, or if you meant just a few minutes.
  If some examples would help, does your "matter of minutes" encompass, say, 20/35/50 minutes, or is it limited to 3/5/10. That sort of thing.
  I didn't think it was that complicated.

is unintelligible gibberish?

FFS my missus read that post and her only comment at the time I have relayed to you. Afterwards I asked her for more and she read the post again carefully and slowly: "Is he just asking how many minutes."

How many minutes - assuming that is your question which I'm still not sure, 3 words, yep just 3 words instead of 20 comments

Really?

Why do you do this sort of thing? What's your motive?

If you can't be bothered to re-assess the area around where I ask: "So you lie?" and what led up to it, I can't be bothered either.

Oh and I'll turn one of your accusations back on you and ask why you are misquoting me?

 

[morqthana]

FFS my missus read that post and her only comment at the time I have relayed to you. Afterwards I asked her for more and she read the post again carefully and slowly: "Is he just asking how many minutes."

How many minutes - assuming that is your question which I'm still not sure, 3 words, yep just 3 words instead of 20 comments

OK, so I didn't ask "how many minutes".

How does that mean that what I did write:

The thing about a shower, is that they only run for a matter of minutes

As in a time you'd more likely state in minutes than fractions of an hour? Yes.

As in only a few minutes? No.

was unintelligible gibberish?

And it's not 20 comments vs 3 words.

It's 20 comments because Harry said that the above was unintelligible, was gibberish, was nonsense.

It's 20 comments because you and others joined in with that.

It's 20 comments because you have persisted with that allegation whilst persistently refusing to present any proof to support it.

It's 20 comments because diy_fun_uk tried to make out that "What you need to do is get a spec sheet for the screws and the ply. Multiple the tensile strength of the screws and the ply, then divide by 8.482. Add the humidity level for whatever day you intend to do the work, then subtract it. What number do you get? That'll give you the answer you're looking for" was a good analogy for 9500/240.

It's 20 comments because you thought it was OK to call me a t w a t, and an idiot.

If you can't be bothered to re-assess the area around where I ask: "So you lie?" and what led up to it, I can't be bothered either.

The "area" where you asked "So you lie?" is this.

Where's the lie?

What led up to it? We could start with this:

I really refuse to put up with this.

Don't then - you don't have to.

And why should I have to put up with it?

You don't have to

So where's the lie?

After you joined in with Harry taking a pop at me, i.e. after you engaged in the type of behaviour which you agreed I shouldn't have to put up with, I didn't put up with it by remaining silent, I asked you why you joined in with Harry taking a pop at me, and you asked me not to bring you into "my row", i.e. the one you were already in.

Where's the lie in saying that there appears to be a discrepancy between you agreeing that I shouldn't have to put up with the sort of thing you'd done and then asking me to put up with it by not challenging you for doing it?

Oh and I'll turn one of your accusations back on you and ask why you are misquoting me?

Where have I misquoted you?

 

[pete01]

OMG

 

[ebee]

Why?

On a cooker circuit, you allow for diversity, where you make an assumption that not all of the cooker/hob will be turned on at the same time, or it will not be all on for long.

A form of diversity, is applied to your cut-out main fuse - turn everything on, and you will exceed the 60 or even the 100amp fuse, at least for a while.

An electric shower, by their nature, and the sheer cost of running one, is not something most people will run for more than a few minutes. If it were accidentally left on for an extended period, then I for one, would appreciate a 32amp MCB eventually tripping, to shut it off.

Good morning Harry.

"On a cooker circuit, you allow for diversity, where you make an assumption that not all of the cooker/hob will be turned on at the same time, or it will not be all on for long."
Yes we do, using sound engineering judgement which has pretty much stood the test of time, We know that any overload will be slight/short lived and we do this "trade off" as an acceptable means to keep cable sizes respectably low, we keep in mind the economics of the installation and perhaps to save the planet in our use of resources. We know that a small overload and/or short duration can occur and accept that compromise.


"A form of diversity, is applied to your cut-out main fuse - turn everything on, and you will exceed the 60 or even the 100amp fuse, at least for a while."
Yes indeed and again we sensibly agree to tolerate that to some extent.

"An electric shower, by their nature, and the sheer cost of running one, is not something most people will run for more than a few minutes. If it were accidentally left on for an extended period, then I for one, would appreciate a 32amp MCB eventually tripping, to shut it off."
No not quite, being a fixed load rather than a varying load the only control any user has is the time it runs for, whilst a lot of users might well use it for a sensible low amount of time then others may not do so.
One example being a parent showering 2 to 8 children consecutively at one shower run time.
Another example is someone having what most of us having would consider an exceptionally long showering time, they do not pay the bills, they dont care (in some instances) , we have all probably noticed that at times, it is not really rare and it must be considered.
With one fixed load on the circuit we design OPD rating to suit that load and that includes that particular cable an the conditions in which it is installed, we should not have the intention to run on the curve for a possibly unlimited time, that would be bad engineering judgement.

On circuits with variable loads, such as the ring final or radial circuits for example, we design in by using a set of rules to assist in keeping the total load to less than the OPD rating but we do realise that it could be exceeded therefore will be exceeded for (hopefully) short duration.
When thinking about circuit loading and likely loading considerations we think about type of intended use such as typical domestic with one family of two parents and 2.4 children, we also consider the floor area served, we do not really consider the number of outlets to be the deciding factor because usually it is not (but it could be).

 

[morqthana]

So what's your answer?

FWIW, my answer would be no, don't put in an RCBO that would be overloaded.

 

[Jurassicspark]

AND YOU JURASSICSPARK,

Mr morqthana,

You said you blocked me last time and yet here you are mentioning my username.

If you are able to read this please don’t mention it again.

 

[Jurassicspark]

Good morning Harry.

"On a cooker circuit, you allow for diversity, where you make an assumption that not all of the cooker/hob will be turned on at the same time, or it will not be all on for long."
Yes we do, using sound engineering judgement which has pretty much stood the test of time, We know that any overload will be slight/short lived and we do this "trade off" as an acceptable means to keep cable sizes respectably low, we keep in mind the economics of the installation and perhaps to save the planet in our use of resources. We know that a small overload and/or short duration can occur and accept that compromise.


"A form of diversity, is applied to your cut-out main fuse - turn everything on, and you will exceed the 60 or even the 100amp fuse, at least for a while."
Yes indeed and again we sensibly agree to tolerate that to some extent.

).

The fusing characteristics of the main fuse means a huge surge is needed for it to blow instantaneously, and a higher sustained current than the rating of the fuse to blow it later.

I imagine one would get 100A forever from a 80A fused supply (well, until something else gives up or catches fire!). (Reader: please don’t try this at home)

The question I see getting asked a lot is, “All of my MCB’s added up together exceed the main switch/cutout fuse capacity, should I be worried?

 

[pete01]

FWIW, my answer would be no, don't put in an RCBO that would be overloaded.

So what's your solution to the original question?