RCD protection for bathroom lights

[Ianm]

Hi, I've seen lots of answers to questions on this topic, but can't find a specific one for my situation. Our house was completely rewired professionally about 10 years ago. At that time the electrician installed low voltage halogen down lighters in the bathrooms. they were pretty poor quality, not fire rated and now desperately need replacing. I'd like to move to LED lights, but really struggling to find low voltage, IP65, fire rated fittings. There are plenty of mains voltage fittings, but I'm not clear whether simply changing the fittings to mains voltage (in zone 1) would require the addition of RCD protection (the circuits aren't currently fitted with an RCD).I get that new circuits would need protecting.

If the answer is yes, then I can see that changing the MCB for an RCBO would be an option and I could probably do that, but would it more properly require a qualified electrician? If so, changing a few light fittings is going to an expensive affair!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Hi, I've seen lots of answers to questions on this topic, but can't find a specific one for my situation. Our house was completely rewired professionally about 10 years ago. At that time the electrician installed low voltage halogen down lighters in the bathrooms.

Presuming you mean 12V.

they were pretty poor quality, not fire rated and now desperately need replacing. I'd like to move to LED lights, but really struggling to find low voltage, IP65, fire rated fittings.

Probably don't need to be fire-rated - if the room above the bathroom is your property.

There are plenty of mains voltage fittings, but I'm not clear whether simply changing the fittings to mains voltage (in zone 1) would require the addition of RCD protection (the circuits aren't currently fitted with an RCD).

It would not.

I get that new circuits would need protecting.

True.

If the answer is yes, then I can see that changing the MCB for an RCBO would be an option and I could probably do that, but would it more properly require a qualified electrician? If so, changing a few light fittings is going to an expensive affair!

The answer is not 'yes'.
You may change it to an RCBO if you are competent and have the necessary testing equipment.

If the circuit is within the bathroom zones (less than 2.25m from the floor) AND you consider that to be altering the circuit then the work is notifiable to the Local Authority. This would involve a hefty fee unless you employ a registered electrician.

 

[Taylortwocities]

If your ceiling is above 2.25metres high you do not need

low voltage, IP65, fittings.

Pedant alarm: low voltage IS mains voltage.....

and as EFLI has stated, fire-rated is usually not a requirement.

That should make your search a little easier?

 

[JohnW2]

Pedant alarm: low voltage IS mains voltage.....

Pedant² alarm: it seems that, according to the IEC, 12V (or whatever) is also Low Voltage

Thankfully, I have never seen (and hope I never see) a consumer product designed for mains voltage which is in any way described or labelled as 'Low Voltage'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

It is time they got these definitions sorted out.

 

[JohnW2]

It is time they got these definitions sorted out.

I would say that ≥99% of the population probably have - as far as they are concerned 'mains voltage' is potentially very dangerous (and the numerically-inclined amongst them might understand it to be >200V), whereas low voltage is nearly always 'harmless' (commonly 12V, and certainly never over 50V).

In my opinion, it is the other ≤1% who need to do some 'sorting out'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Ianm]

Thanks for all the replies, apologies if my terminology was inaccurate. That has perhaps left some doubt in my mind. So, just to be clear, replacing 12V down light fittings (halogen) with 230V down light fittings (LED) in bathroom zone 1 does not require RCD protection under the regs. Changing the circuit in some way (eg adding another light fitting) would require adding RCD protection. Is that correct?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Sort of.

Replacing lights does not have any conditions - other than the general regulations for all work.

New work on circuits - anywhere - must be to the latest regulations so must have RCD.

Additions or alterations to circuits within the bathroom zones (0, 1 & 2) are notifiable.

 

[JohnW2]

Replacing lights does not have any conditions - other than the general regulations for all work. ... New work on circuits - anywhere - must be to the latest regulations so must have RCD.

Indeed - and (perhaps this is what you mean?) the appearance of 411.3.4 in the current regs presumably means that virtually all new (rather than 'replacement') lights (anywhere) are required to have RCD protection?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

It would seem so; don't know why.

However, I did not mean that - just that all new circuits (or bits of) to a bathroom must have RCD.

 

[Ianm]

Sort of.

Additions or alterations to circuits within the bathroom zones (0, 1 & 2) are notifiable.

The question then is whether the removal of the transformers from the circuit constitutes an alteration?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would say no.

If your ceiling is more than 2.25m from the floor level, it does not apply anyway.

 

[JohnW2]

It would seem so; don't know why.

I would imagine probably just a step on the path towards RCD protection being required for essentially everything?

However, I did not mean that - just that all new circuits (or bits of) to a bathroom must have RCD.

Fair enough. I imagine that the wording of 701.411.3.3 is such that there will probably be debate as to whether extensions to an existing circuit (e.g. an additional light) invoke a requirement for the whole circuit to be RCD protected, or whether RCD protection of just 'the new bits;' would be acceptable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Ianm]

I would say no.

If your ceiling is more than 2.25m from the floor level, it does not apply anyway.

Thanks, that does clear it up for me. Unfortunately the ceiling is 2.2m from the floor!

 

[nitro23456]

The transformers are not part of the circuit, they are part of the fitting.

I'd change for ip65 mains LED and add the RCBO personally.

(Both just my opinion)