RCD protection for bathroom lights

[ban-all-sheds]

Some include them in the product paperwork.

That's what my memory says.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I would suggest that it would be far less worrying (and far less potentially confusing) than would be the case if something were described as a "Low Voltage toaster", "Low Voltage oven", "Low voltage lamp", "Low Voltage toy" or whatever.

I struggle to see how a statement to the effect that "this toaster complies with the Low Voltage Directive" isn't pretty much the same as "this toaster is Low Voltage".

I don't think that Part P is particularly relevant. It is probably inevitable that it be written in terms of the 'official' definitions, and anyone who needs to read it will hopefully understand what those definitions are.

Your faith in the ability of people to know and understand things like that given their abilities regularly displayed here is touching, but I fear misguided.

 

[JohnW2]

I think my conclusion from what you are saying, whether or not there are items so marked, is that even the ones that are, i.e. lamps, should not be described as 'low voltage' either.

Indeed. My view is that, given how the vast majority of people/ consumers/ buyers would probably interpret it, no product designed for use at 'mains voltage' should be described (i.e. named/labelled) as a 'Low Voltage' product.

After all a 'low voltage toaster' could be any voltage in the range and so can the lamps. People assume they are 12V, so are we to accept that 'low voltage' only means 12V - not 6V, not 24V, not 49V?

I've never suggested that. My belief is that the great majority of people will interpret "low voltage" as implying a voltage low enough not to (usually) be a significant threat to life, which would presumably encompass any of the voltages you mention.

That's all about 'safety', in the broadest sense. As we have often discussed, in terms of adequacy as specification of a product, neither "Low Voltage" nor "Extra Low Voltage" are adequate - which presumably is why we never (or virtually never) see products described/'specified' in such terms. The former probably means ~230V, but could mean ~110V, ~400V or even higher. The latter most commonly means 12V, but could also mean 6V, 24V, 36V 48V or whatever..

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I struggle to see how a statement to the effect that "this toaster complies with the Low Voltage Directive" isn't pretty much the same as "this toaster is Low Voltage".

That statement seems to indicate a lack of understanding of the different ways in which people regard what they consider to be 'small print' as compared with how they regard the primary 'name'/descriptor of a product.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Indeed. My view is that, given how the vast majority of people/ consumers/ buyers would probably interpret it, no product designed for use at 'mains voltage' should be described (i.e. named/labelled) as a 'Low Voltage' product.

But they have to be.

That statement seems to indicate a lack of understanding of the different ways in which people regard what they consider to be 'small print' as compared with how they regard the primary 'name'/descriptor of a product.

In popular culture, Darwin might have had something to say about the wisdom of dismissing product specifications and statements of regulatory compliance as "small print".

 

[JohnW2]

But they have to be.

I don't know about "have to be" - but, as I've said, thankfully they aren't described (to consumers/purchasers) as such.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Somewhere they have to be, because they are, and they have to certify compliance with directive(s) which use the correct terminology.

I am sure I have read it in the literature that came with a consumer product.

Detlef confirms that he has written it for product literature.

It does happen.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't think that Part P is particularly relevant.

Part P applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter, no matter who does the work.

It applies to virtually every job done by virtually everybody who posts questions here.

It is probably inevitable that it be written in terms of the 'official' definitions, and anyone who needs to read it will hopefully understand what those definitions are.

Virtually everybody who posts here needs to read it.

And they won't understand what it means, in fact they are likely to actually think it doesn't apply, if their belief that "mains voltage" is not "low voltage" is allowed to stand.