Replacing the Kitchen

[mdbalson]

I am going to be replacing the Kitchen over the next couble of months, including all the electrics in the kitchen. The socket circuit, the cooker circuit, & the kitchen lighting circuit, as the kitchen electrics are poor.
The lighting circuit is not all earthed (& has metal lights fitted), there is a JB or 2 hidden above the celining with no assess to them (as the kitchen is a single storey extentison).

The old lights

The unearthed Light:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/Replacing Kitchen/DSC00109.jpg

The wiring in the other light:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/Replacing Kitchen/DSC00112.jpg

The temp earth wire to the unearthed light:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/Replacing Kitchen/DSC00114.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/Replacing Kitchen/DSC00113.jpg

The light now earthed:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/Replacing Kitchen/DSC00111.jpg

The socket circuit has extra bits of cable crimped to the cables behied the sockets, as the wires had been cut too short, & the back boxes are rusty from years of damp in the walls.
The Cooker circuit needs replacing, as the isolator is moving to above the worktop (it is under the worktop at the moment, in the space meant for a small fridge), also an all electric range cooker is going into the new kitchen, which will need a bigger circuit & MCB.

Also all the lighting & power wires are on show at the moment (clipped up around the celining)

The good thing from a rewire point of view, is that the Meter cupboard, which has the CCU in, is in thw kitchen by the door from the dining room in to the kitchen, so it will mean less cable & less chasing of the walls.

The Meter Cupboard

The wiring in the old MEM CCU:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00291.jpg

The wiring in the old RCD CCU:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00013-1.jpg

The meter cupboard:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00292.jpg

The Temp. JBs in the Meter cupboard:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00293.jpg

The FCU is for the loft power, the round JB is for the Shed Freezer, & the square JB is for the cooker.

The Temp. DSO in the kitchen (Powering the Fridge & the under cupboard lights)(the white cable is the Fridge & the Black cable is the under cupboard lights):

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00265.jpg

The cables to the temp. DSO in the Kitchen:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00266.jpg

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u125/mdbalson/DSC00267.jpg

The uncovered back box with bare wires is dead.

I will also replace the 2 old CCUs will one new MK 21 Mod CCU with RCBOs for the all the socket circuits, & a lock on the lid to stop my 3 year old brother from turning the breakers on & off.

I will post up pics of what I find & of the new stuff that I am putting in.

 

[mdbalson]

1st Question

On the kitchen lighting circuit, there will be in the kitchen, 3 sets of 230V halogen downlights, 2 230V two bulb halogen bar lights & the undercupboard lights(3 fluros & 1 set of two 12V halogen undercupboard lights).

The bathroom light (a 12V two bulb halogen bar light), the utitly room lights, the back floodlight, & the 2 side path lights.

I was going to use 3 RB4 JBs for the kitchen lighting circuit.

The 1st RB4 JBs would be for: Mains In, Mains Out to 2nd JB, Feed/SRs to/from the kitchen lights switch (1st Gang= Downlights, 2nd Gang= Dowlights, 3rd Gang= Downlights, 4th Gang= the 2 two bulb bar lights, & the 5th Gang= Undercupboard Lights), Feed to undercupboard lights, The feed to the 2 two bulb bar lights, & 3 Downlights feeds.

The 3 Downlights feeds will go to the RB4 JBs , & then from the 3rd RB4 will come the feeds to the separate downlights (12 in total, in 3 switching groups)

The 2nd RB4 JBs would be for: Mains In, Feed/SR to/from the Bathroom light switch, the feed to the Bathroom light, Feed/SR to/From the 3 Gang switch by the back door (1st Gang= 2 Side Path Lights, 2nd Gang Back Floodlight, & 3rd Gang= Utitly Room lights)

So would this be OK to do it this way

2nd Question

The undercupboard lights will be switched by a normal light switch by the kitchen door, I was going to do it that the undercupboard lights are plugged into four 5Amp round pin sockets flush mounted in the wall above the wall cupboards, & the 5amp sockets would be controlled by one of the light switches by the kitchen door.

So would this be OK to do it this way

3rd Question

Under the cupboards, I am going to use these sockets Clicky, I was going feed each of them from a switched FCU flush mounted in the wall above the wall cupboards (So each one would have it's own switched FCU)

So would this be OK to do it this way

4th Question

I will probally have air con put in the Utitly Room, & maybe in the Kitchen in the future, I know that each one will need their own circuit & a DP switch, but I would like to know what size cable & MCB would be needed, so I can put in the cable ready for the air con, will I am redoing the kitchen. (is it 2.5mm cable & a 20Amp MCB, Type B or C, that is used )

 

[electronicsuk]

2nd Question

The undercupboard lights will be switched by a normal light switch by the kitchen door, I was going to do it that the undercupboard lights are plugged into four 5Amp round pin sockets flush mounted in the wall above the wall cupboards, & the 5amp sockets would be controlled by one of the light switches by the kitchen door.

So would this be OK to do it this way

That's fine if you want to go about it that way.

3rd Question

Under the cupboards, I am going to use these sockets Clicky, I was going feed each of them from a switched FCU flush mounted in the wall above the wall cupboards (So each one would have it's own switched FCU)

So would this be OK to do it this way

Again, if you want to feed each switch from an FCU then you can do so, but it would seem more sensible to use a 20A DP isolator unless the instructions state otherwise. Whatever you plug in will already be fused, having two fuses isn't going to offer anything extra other than hassle. I haven't used these sockets before but also assume the terminals are sufficient to connect them directly into the ring, perhaps a better option?

4th Question

I will probally have air con put in the Utitly Room, & maybe in the Kitchen in the future, I know that each one will need their own circuit & a DP switch, but I would like to know what size cable & MCB would be needed, so I can put in the cable ready for the air con, will I am redoing the kitchen. (is it 2.5mm cable & a 20Amp MCB, Type B or C, that is used )

Start-up current on air conditioning units can be quite high because of the compressor, so a type-C MCB might be the best option here. Current draw depends on the size of unit you install, and that decision is based on the size of your kitchen/utility room. As a guide, I have a couple of 9000btu units that share a 16A dedicated circuit on a type B MCB, each with their own FCU.

 

[ricicle]

Part P ???

 

[mdbalson]

3rd Question

Under the cupboards, I am going to use these sockets Clicky, I was going feed each of them from a switched FCU flush mounted in the wall above the wall cupboards (So each one would have it's own switched FCU)

So would this be OK to do it this way

Again, if you want to feed each switch from an FCU then you can do so, but it would seem more sensible to use a 20A DP isolator unless the instructions state otherwise. Whatever you plug in will already be fused, having two fuses isn't going to offer anything extra other than hassle. I haven't used these sockets before but also assume the terminals are sufficient to connect them directly into the ring, perhaps a better option?

The sockets come with 2m of black round flex fitted. The terminals are small.

4th Question

I will probally have air con put in the Utitly Room, & maybe in the Kitchen in the future, I know that each one will need their own circuit & a DP switch, but I would like to know what size cable & MCB would be needed, so I can put in the cable ready for the air con, will I am redoing the kitchen. (is it 2.5mm cable & a 20Amp MCB, Type B or C, that is used )

Start-up current on air conditioning units can be quite high because of the compressor, so a type-C MCB might be the best option here. Current draw depends on the size of unit you install, and that decision is based on the size of your kitchen/utility room. As a guide, I have a couple of 9000btu units that share a 16A dedicated circuit on a type B MCB, each with their own FCU.

So would they need a dedicated 16A circuit for each one, or one dedicated 16A circuit for both. Would 2.5mm T+E ok?

Any comments on Question one?

Also can you use 3 core & Earth cable as the SRs for a 3 Gang switch or as the Feed & SRs for a 2Gang Switch

 

[mdbalson]

Part P ???

Yes notifyed

 

[Steve]

Part P ???

Yes notifyed

Again Are they sick of hearing from you yet?

When you get air con, you'll be popping down the shops a bit more often to charge youe 'lectric key

 

[mdbalson]

Part P ???

Yes notifyed

Again Are they sick of hearing from you yet?

When you get air con, you'll be popping down the shops a bit more often to charge youe 'lectric key

The meter has got to be moved to the bottom of the meter cupboard for the New MK 19 way CCU to go along the top of the meter cupboard, so at the same time the meter is going to be changed from the key meter to a normal one

 

[electronicsuk]

The sockets come with 2m of black round flex fitted. The terminals are small.

Fair play, FCU it is.

So would they need a dedicated 16A circuit for each one, or one dedicated 16A circuit for both. Would 2.5mm T+E ok?

Shared 16A on 2.5mmsq shouldn't be a problem but will, of course, depend on installation method. If you want to be on the safe side then you could consider running a radial in 4mmsq T+E back to your CU to give you some extra capacity.

Also bear in mind that some A/C units are supplied at the outdoor condensor unit, while others (mostly cheaper ones) have a moulded 13A plug and lead on the indoor unit. It would make sense to find out what type you will be buying, as the latter will need an FCU indoors for each unit.

Also can you use 3 core & Earth cable as the SRs for a 3 Gang switch or as the Feed & SRs for a 2Gang Switch

Yes, you can use the conductors for anything you want (with the exception of the CPC) as long as they are appropriately sleeved.

 

[mdbalson]

The sockets come with 2m of black round flex fitted. The terminals are small.

Fair play, FCU it is.

I thought it would be a FCU needed

So would they need a dedicated 16A circuit for each one, or one dedicated 16A circuit for both. Would 2.5mm T+E ok?

Shared 16A on 2.5mmsq shouldn't be a problem but will, of course, depend on installation method. If you want to be on the safe side then you could consider running a radial in 4mmsq T+E back to your CU to give you some extra capacity.

Also bear in mind that some A/C units are supplied at the outdoor condensor unit, while others (mostly cheaper ones) have a moulded 13A plug and lead on the indoor unit. It would make sense to find out what type you will be buying, as the latter will need an FCU indoors for each unit.

The T+E will come from the CCU, & be under the wall paster from the meter cupboard up to the ceiling, & then it will be clipped up above the ceiling to the kitchen A/C unit & then through the wall into the utitly room A/C unit

So 4mm T+E then And what MCB a 16A or a 20A Type B or C

Also can you use 3 core & Earth cable as the SRs for a 3 Gang switch or as the Feed & SRs for a 2Gang Switch

Yes, you can use the conductors for anything you want (with the exception of the CPC) as long as they are appropriately sleeved.

I thought that, but I wanted to double check.

 

[electronicsuk]

I wouldn't bother installing an MCB until you buy the A/C units, then you can select something suitable based on their specification. 4mmsq T+E enclosed in an insulated wall is rated to 27A, or 37A clipped direct. A 20A type C should be more than sufficient for whatever you choose to install to cool an average size kitchen/utility room.

 

[equitum]

Please, please MDB, stop using the acronym CCU when you mean CU.

CCU = Cooker Control Unit
CU = Consumer Unit

Sorry to pick you up on this trivia, but for some reason it crops up a lot on here - always good to use the the correct terminology.

 

[mdbalson]

Please, please MDB, stop using the acronym CCU when you mean CU.

CCU = Cooker Control Unit
CU = Consumer Unit

Sorry to pick you up on this trivia, but for some reason it crops up a lot on here - always good to use the the correct terminology.

CCU= Consumer Control Unit

ccu= cooker control unit

This is what we were told at college by the tutors, & in the teaching notes we were given.

As that is what the tutors said it is now called

 

[plugwash]

What college instructors say and what happens in the real world are often two very different things. This applies in many different fields.

 

[scousespark]

MDB,

I would say you should be looking for supervised experience before you take on jobs of this size. Your level of questions are fairly basic and you never say what your lecturer thinks of your plans.

If you've notified LABC of the job, what have they asked for in terms of certs?

You just slipped in mention of a new CU (don't use CCU/ccu as this is just confuesng). Are you also doing a board change.