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Replacing UP2 & WR1 with Hive wiring help

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by howardsmith, 1 Oct 2021.

  1. howardsmith

    howardsmith

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    I have done a bit of searching online and find a lot of hits here but nothing that is specific to me so I have signed up for some expert help.

    I have a convensional boiler with Birtish Gas UP2 programmer and WR1 reciever with thermostat. My WR1 has failed (did have it repaired by a guy on ebay about 4 years ago but going to replace this time). I currently have the WR1 bypassed by joining terminal 1 and 3 with a jumper wire while I decide what to do.

    I am considering installing a Hive heating and hot water controll set up (dual channel) but have some questions regarding the wiring set up.

    I believe the hive is compatible as the UP2 has a UK standard backplate. However the wiring in the backplate of the UP2 is not exaclt the same as the diagram shown in the hive pdf manual.

    The backplate of my UP2 has Live+Neutral (which is also spurred off (I assume) to the WR1 in the airing cupboard) and then terminal 3+4 (HW ON+HEATING ON).

    The WR1 has Live+Neutral and then 1+3 (which I currently have a jumper between to bypass the unit).

    I am scratching my head on how a hive would be set up. Can anyone with experience point me in the right direction. My assumption is that the hive reciever replaces the UP2 and then the WR1 can be removed/bypassed but just not sure on the wiring set up.

    I also have a junction box in the airing cupboard which has the feed from the UP2 coming in and then it's a right mess feeding the WR1, pump and 2 x 2 way valves and the stat on the tank.

    Here are some pics of my set up. Any help would be massively appreciated.


    Backplate of UP2...

    20211001_110135.jpg


    Backplate of WR1 (note the jumper lead)....

    20211001_094201.jpg


    Hive Wiring diagram (assuming I need dual channel for conventional boiler/HW tank).

    Screenshot_20211001-094752_OneDrive.jpg
     
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  3. stem

    stem

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    As you have figured, you need the dual channel version of Hive to replace the UP2. The terminals of both units have identical functions, like for like as can be seen below; so the wiring there doesn't change.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    The room thermostat cable should be traced back to where it originates from. Note where the wires are connected at their point of origin and disconnect them all. Finally inset a wire link to join together the two terminals where the grey and black wires have just been removed from so that they are electrically connected.
     
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  4. howardsmith

    howardsmith

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    I was hoping to get you @stem . Thanks for the reply.

    Just to clarify.... Room thermostat cable? I have a wireless thermostat that talks to the WR1 (I believe).... The WR1 is currently removed with a link between terminal 1 and 3 to bypass its function for now.

    Below is the photo of the WR1 backplate.

    I'm guessing the grey and black here are effectively the same as the room thermostat cable but instead of going to the stat they go to the WR1 wireless reciever... meaning maybe I have already done the loop that you are suggesting just in a round about way...

    20211001_094201.jpg
     
    Last edited: 1 Oct 2021
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  5. stem

    stem

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    Yes, the WR1 Receiver is what the thermostat communicates with, and is where the wring that would go to a wired room thermostat is connected.

    You have also already effectively replicated the wiring mod required to take the old thermostat out of circuit, so you could leave it as it is with the "loop" between 1 and 3 and the Hive will work. The professional way to install the Hive would be to remove the old thermostat and make the loop at the other end of the cable.
     
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  6. howardsmith

    howardsmith

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    Thanks @stem

    I will order the hive and whack it on!

    You have saved me a lot of faffing about.
     
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  8. howardsmith

    howardsmith

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    All done... found the hive set up at toolstation, fetched it and after a bit of messing around with the buttons have it all progrmmed up...

    I have it set in 'gravity fed mode which I think is correct....

    While I have you @stem , I know this has probably been asked and answered a million times but just want to confirm a good place to set boiler temp (adjusted on the front of the boiler) and what HW tank temp 'should' be.

    Currently my HW is 65°c on the tank... My understanding is this is personal preference...

    Boiler is at 60°c.... Is that the return flow temp and point at which the boiler cuts out... not 100% sure on all this but nearly there.... my understanding is that this is more important and has effects on the efficency of the boiler/system...

    New hive interface is lovley! 20211001_182207.jpg
     
  9. flameport

    flameport

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    Exceptionally unlikely you have a gravity system.

    A gravity heating system is typically a cast iron floor standing boiler, with 28mm or larger pipes from that to a hot water cylinder located above. Water from the boiler circulates due to convection only, there is no pump.
    Radiators are connected to a separate set of pipes with a pump, switching that pump on circulates heated water to the radiators.
    Hot water is on when the boiler is, radiators cannot be used on their own.
    Normally only found on old systems that should have been replaced long ago.

    Minimum for hot water is around 60C, to prevent legionella bacteria growing in the tank.
    The boiler flow temperature must be higher than the hot water thermostat setting, otherwise the boiler will be cycling on and off for ever.
    Return to the boiler generally 55 or below for improved efficiency.
    Hot water cylinders typically need a much higher flow temperature to heat quickly, but it's more efficient for the radiators to use a lower temperature. Some boilers have settings for both, but normally only when used with specific controls from the boiler manufacturer.
     
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  10. howardsmith

    howardsmith

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    Cheers @flameport

    So I'm going to stick with 65 on the tank and I will put the boiler at 70....? That sound OK?

    I missread the hive instructions and went down the set up for gravity/part pumped systems... I saw the part pumped bit and went with that.... now I read it again I see it stated that "fully pumped" is the default set up, I'm guessing now I have a fully pumped set up and I should have left it alone... I will change it back.

    Screenshot_20211001-201233_OneDrive.jpg
     
  11. stem

    stem

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    As @flameport you will most likely have a fully pumped system. Don't confuse gravity* circulation of hot water between the boiler and hot water cylinder with having cold water storage tanks in the loft that is something else altogether. 99% of gravity circulation systems don't have a hot water cylinder thermostat, so that fact that you do makes it unlikely that yours is gravity circulation.

    *The term 'gravity' in this context refers to the natural (ie not pumped) circulation of hot water between the hot water cylinder and boiler, in that 'less dense' hot water rises and 'denser' cooler water falls.
     
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