Roof damage on several new properties-Sheffied

[dusan_h]

This morning after a windy night I noticed there is a ridge tile missing on our roof and having walked around the area of Parklands, Sheffield I noticed that we are not alone. Just around my house are 8 other houses with the same problem, where the first ridge tile was blown off last night. Funny thing is that only new properties had this problem most of the old properties are OK. Many properties that remain undamaged have cracks in mortar.

Here are some pics from today.
http://halamka.netfirms.com/

I looked at the builders manuals (Bellway homes) and they say the NHBC insurance doesn't cover roof damage and we should contact home insurance company.
This seems to me more like faulty workmanship and it should be covered and repaired by the builder as we are still in first 2 year NHBC period.
I am going to call Bellway tomorrow to see what they say.

What do you think ?

 

[^woody^]

Yes quality can be poorer today than it was in the past. And the reasons can be lack of training/skill or poor management.

Bellway like many homebuilders want to get houses up as quick as possible to sell and make the profit.

These companies are generally more concerned with a nice carpet and pot of tea in the show home, than the mix of the ridge tile mortar

The NHBC not only work for its members, but are paid by them so don't expect any help there. They will also try and worm out of every complaint you put to them.
I've presented snagging surveys of over 200 items to NHBC inspectors, items which not only contravene their own standards but those of any other BSI/EN standard you could mention, and its been a damn hard fight just to get the NHBC guy to acknowledge that an each and every one is wrong - and that's before the arguing about whether it's in the guarantee period or not. Soul destroying it is

You've done a good job there with the pictures, and a bit of publicity would probably be more likely to make Bellway inclined to do something.

I would love to hear there response as to why so many if their houses have lost the tiles. I think I've got an idea about what the answers will be though

 

[Deluks]

Appalling really, but a sign of the times I suppose. It seems everything you buy today is cheaply made and falls apart.
Your website is good, and as Woody says, a little publicity can go a long way. Print off your webpage and drop copies into all affected house, urging then to get on the blower and write and complain. Ultimately if you get no compassion from Bellway, leaflet all the houses on the estate, put posters up in local shops etc. then head off to the local papers, they like to print stories where there are pictures of an enraged community holding up placards etc.

Then get onto watchdog. There are probably other (more official) channels you can take but they usually take ages (years even) before anything gets done. By which time any guarantee period is over

 

[dusan_h]

Thanks for your help guys.

Rang NHBC and they advised to call Bellway as it's within first 2 years of the warranty. Sent an email to Bellway and followed up with a call later. They promised that they will contact me today. I received an email from the Bellway's Customer Care department later in the afternoon saying they have appointed a roof contractor to come over and fix the problem.
Will see when it will be.... as there is a fair size hole in the roof and the weather is not good.

I think the email must have alerted them. Their automated telephone system says to contact Insurance company straight away if there was a damage to a property due to recent weather conditions.

It was my intention to print out the website and go to door to door to check what others owners will do.

will be posting ....

 

[east coast]

we do work for all the major house builders barrat persimmion millers etc.
all roof tiles are nailed once and clipped,all ridge tiles bedded with mortar and nailed.its the only way for a belt and braces job...

 

[JohnD]

Is picture 2 what you call a mortar verge? Surely they always crack and fall out (mine does), I thought there were better ways to build roofs now.

 

[corrie]

No new houses in my area use mortar verge and ridge........it is all "dry" systems. To keep using mortar verges is a cost cutting thing. If you build 100 houses the cost of all the dry system amounts to a fair bit so this is more profit for builder.

Not saying a decent job can`t be done with mortar but it is more susceptible to suffering quality issues with being done in bad weather and poor prep. One of the issues is that mortar does not adhere that well to smooth Fibre cement boards. In doing my own work I always stipple coat that board with SBR/mixed with sharp sand and cement. This provides long lasting adhesion. That being said we were never instructed to do such things on big sites........and I doubt that any sub-contractor does it now either. Some of the short lenghts of fibre board in pics aint fixed is it? Normally put a long screw through tile batten and into board to stop movement....especially if it aint wide enough to catch truss.

It was never a great way to finish the roof anyway. Mortar bedded onto tile batten and drawing moisture across cavity etc. Also verge clips are supposed to be fixed to tile batten but they never are as it is difficult and time consuming in practice.

All this being said I think there is going to be a lot of work in the future with plastic systems breaking down and then being ripped out with wind as it loses strength..........there will always be work for us guys

Alex

 

[JohnD]

is there a good way to repair a cracked and gappy mortar verge?

 

[corrie]

What I`ve been doing on small sections John is take mortar out....give the void a damp down and then fill with PU foam. I use the pistol gun as it doesn`t swell up like a balloon. Cut it off next day and trim about 20mmdepth for mortar. Point it up and finish. The foam holds it all together and it takes the render well.

Alex

 

[^woody^]

Nothing made of plastic lasts more than 25 years on a roof.

A mortar verge done correctly will last over 60 years, an much longer normally.

Plastic is only used due to speed and lower skills needed, and IMO is a poor substitute for properly done traditional mortar finished roofs.

Yes there are advantages in a dry system, but all things being equal mortar is the better and most economical system

 

[Coniferman]

So how essential would you (anyone) say it is to get a crack that looks similar to one shown in picture two, fixed? Would there not be any signs of trouble if not done?

 

[spooky_b329]

Pic 6 has a big bit of lead flashing missing from their garage roof as well!

 

[dusan_h]

Hi all,

I had a call+email from the builder today saying that they are going to send an independent contractor to re-fit the tile, however they will check if the fault is on our side or contractor's side.

How can I trust that their independent contractor will be independent when carrying out the job ?

From what I see they are trying to pass the cost either to the original roofing contractor or myself... ?

Further to our recent discussions, I write to confirm that an indepedant contractor has been appointed to refit your ridge tiles (contact details attached) and will be in contact with you to organise a conveiniant appointment.

As discussed he will provide me with a report as to the cause of the damage. Should the report find any fault with the original installation the cost of the repair will be bourne by Bellway. However if the tiles were fixed correctly and the damage is entirely down to the extremely adverse weather conditions you agree to fully reimburse Bellway of any costs incurred and advise your insurance company accordingley.

Fax to independent contractor from the builder

As discussed the tile was blown off in the recent storms and the original contractor "XXXXXX Tiling" are unwilling to refit without charge as they state “the ridge tile was ripped clean off by the wind leaving part of the mechanical fixing still in place”.

Could you please carry out the repair and then report back to me regarding the original installation being in accordance with the manufacturers instructions.

The specified ridge is a Sandtoft Half round dry ridge dark grey

 

[dusan_h]

Saga continues:

A man with a white van came over today at 12.05 and did the work on my roof . My relative let the man in to fix the tile. He didn't show any ID. I arrived at 12.45 (as we agreed on 13.00 appointment).

I have asked that man for a company name he works for and only reply I got was that he works for some "sort" of Yorkshire Roofing company (but didn't actually said the name), but pointed out his boss is sat in the another car talking on the phone. I have asked if he have inspected the work and he said "I have fixed the tile". "The damage was caused by wind and there is no bad workmanship". I have shown him all the web printouts http://halamka.netfirms.com, but he have not said anything and just blamed the wind.
When he finished (it took him 1h) he spoke to his boss for a 10-15min. When I saw the man leaving I ran to catch him, but he was gone. I managed to stop his boss just in time as he was heading the opposite direction. I asked him if I could have a chat with him regarding the problem, however he replied he has nothing to do with it, he is not the man's boss, just a friend and tried to ran away. I had my camera ready and took a picture of his numberplate. He shouted he would call the police to which I agreed. He had just shouted at me again and drew off.

I wrote a polite email back to Craig K..... (Commercial Manager) at Bellway about what had happened :
**********
....
This is a very bad experience and I fear that my property and myself are now being at risk.

I trusted Bellway and agreed on sending the independent contractor to assess the roof damage and provide me with the report, however, I feel betrayed now !!! Seems to me I had some cowboys over here.

***********

and after few hours I got an email back.

Dear Mr H.......

I'm sorry to here about the problems you have experienced this afternoon. Please rest assured I have contacted the Director of Avonside roofing for a full report on the incident. Avonside Roofing are a large National Roofing Contractor which is why I chose them to give an independant opinion on a third parties work, which is what I agreed to do, so I fail to see how you feel betrayed by Bellway. If a sub-contractor reprasenting Bellway has acted in an inappropriate manner I will ensure it is dealt with.

Why do you consider yourself or your property as being at risk?

Could you please confirm that your roof has in fact been fixed to your satisfaction.

I will contact you with the report as soon as possible

Regards


Craig K......
Commercial Manager

My reply to that email :

Dear Mr K......,

Thank you for your email.
The roof wasn't fully fixed and the problem with flexing tiles still persists, which is the main cause of the problem.
The mortar is cracked and it wasn't fixed even though I pointed out to it directly when the man was on the roof. The job has not been done correctly and I am not happy about it.


>Why do you consider yourself or your property as being at risk?
How should I feel if you have strange people entering your property and carry out the work and not being able to identify themselves ? Even the manger would deny their employees (contractors or whoever that man was)?
How do I know they won't come back and do the damage to my property due to the fact I complained abut them? I have seen many broken windows and the French doors just few houses away while checking the roof damage. How can I be sure that won't happen to my house?

>I will contact you with the report as soon as possible
The man fixing the roof wasn't an employee of Avonside Roofing - but the contractor. His "boss" wasn't on my roof to check the problem, so I am very curious to see what the report is going to look like. I would like to see it as well.

The contractor was blindly claiming the problem is the wind and no problem with the workmanship. Why he would be still convinced after seeing the problem on several houses? Why would he and his boss freaked out and not wanting discussing the problem ? They were not Bellway connected (the were independent), so they should not have a reason to be afraid to communicate with me.
I don't mind that the man was a Avon's sub-contractor, but what I do mind was his boss behaviour. Why ????

I fail to see how you feel betrayed by Bellway ?
Was the contractor really independent ? What kind of contractor was it if the work was carried out by other sub-contractor ?
I communicate the whole matter and have a contract with Bellway. So the incident is down to Bellway as it's them who is responsible the work is carried out correctly.

Your email response has made me even more upset.

Kind Regard
Dusan

So what do you think?
What should I do apart from adding another 5-10 photos of the damage in our area I found last week ?
Shall I contact council to send an independed building surveyor ?

I will print out 100 pages of leaflets and post to every single house in our estate.

 

[^woody^]

The [a] roofer is the wrong person to give an independant assessment. What are his qualifications, and is he aware of the particular specifications for that roof system or even BS or EN standards for roof work?

Of course the wind was the cause, that is obvious, but what you want to know is why the tile came off in weather which is not really unusual or unexpected in winter time UK climate.

Ask the manufacturer how often they expect their tiles to come off the roof and you will get a different view.

But what you do now is up to you. The tile is fixed, so what outcome do you want?