Safezones and loft conversion

[nrwilliams]

Hi,

Could someone confirm for me that safezones still apply in a loft conversion.

Currently we are insulated and battened ready for plasterboard.

I find that the electrician has fitted his cables today and they are at diagonals across the skeilings and ceilling, also drooping horizontally between socket locations on walls.

Should safe zones not be adhered to, also should the cables not be secured to the battens?

Thanks for your help.

Neil

 

[RF Lighting]

Safe zones apply to ALL wiring concealed within a wall or partition unless they are greater than 50mm deep from the finished wall surface, or contained in steel conduit etc., but even then it would be considered good practice to adhere to them.

Wiring above a ceiling is normally >50mm deep so zones do not apply.

 

[sparkwright]

In simple terms, in the walls the cables have to be over 50 mm from the wall surface, if not in a safe zone. Though when people start clipping several cables to the studwork this often becomes less than 50 mm.

There's no safe zones on ceilings, though good practice would ensure the cables are out the way where possible.

 

[nrwilliams]

Thanks.

The rafters are insulated with silver foil, this is then battened, battens about 20mm deep, plaster board will be 12mm so the cables will all be within 32mm of the wall, skelling or ceilling surface.

So I am concerned that there seems to no logic to the install.

Will see what happens tomorrow.

 

[RF Lighting]

What's a skelling?

Can you post some pictures of the wiring. We will be able to tell you for definate wether your installation is compliant with the regs from them.

 

[nrwilliams]

Sorry, may have spelt it wrong.

It's a loft conversion in a bugalow, skeilings are the sloping walls in the conversion (I think) basically the bit that follows the roof line internally.

Will get some photos tomorrow in the light.

Thanks

Neil

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There's no safe zones on ceilings, though good practice would ensure the cables are out the way where possible.

With loft conversions, at what angle do walls become classed as ceilings?

 

[TheGayOwl]

I would say that the diagonal runs are a little bit sloppy, but not unduly worrysome. The skeiling aspect is a new un on me though!!

Regarding the drooping between sockets, a picture would definately help. There are guidelines re clipping cables and the spacing thereof. In some instances it could be argued that clipping is dangerous as if a nail/screw is knocked into the wall and if clipped it would not be able to move out of the way.

 

[nrwilliams]

Hi,

Couple of photos of the cables, please let me know what you think.

This is the ceilling in the hall.

Photo of cable on wall between two sockets

Regards

Neil

 

[sparkwright]

If that insulation was put in before the wiring (and we all know it was) and there's no access behind that insulation in the wall, then I can't really blame your electrician.

All the insulation in lofts you have to have nowadays really does make life difficult for the electrician.

I would certainly prefer to see a clearance of 50 mm or above between the cables and the bottom of the ceiling, but it looks like it's not possible now. I can't help thinking the building design has not allowed for the wiring.

Why don't you put thicker battens in so the plasterboard fixings are less likely to damage the cables? Or pull out that insulation? BECAUSE IT COSTS TOO MUCH TIME AND MONEY.

If you do plasterboard that ceiling make sure all concerned use the correct length screws.

The horizontal cable in the wall is not in a safe zone with it drooping like that. The cable should be in line with the height the box is going to be at. However, as someone mentioned, fixing the cable to the wood only makes it easier for a screw or nail to penetrate.

Is there a void behind the wall insulation for the cable to run?

 

[nrwilliams]

Hi,

I can see why its been done and it is purely poor planning on the part of the loft conversion company that has resulted in this.

There is a void below the floor which is about 8 to 10 inches deep where they could have run the cables for the sockets (basically steels above old original ceilling joists) and the lighting could have been run in the relatively huge voids that exist behind all the insulation.

Thanks for your input, I will think about whether or not to kick up with the builder about this tonight.

Cheers

Neil

 

[nrwilliams]

There's no safe zones on ceilings, though good practice would ensure the cables are out the way where possible.

With loft conversions, at what angle do walls become classed as ceilings?

Interesting question to which I have not managed to yet find an answer!

 

[sparkwright]

I think putting the insulation first has limited access for the electrician.

I suspect the builder didn't fancy fitting the insulation with the cables in the way. It's also a good idea not to have the cables jammed against the insulation.

There are a lot of cables hanging out of the ceiling. This suggests the builder wants to plasterboard the ceiling before the partition walls go up.

This looks like another case of the builder trying to make his job easier and the electrician's job harder.

As you have probably seen once a job gets near the plasterboarding stage a mad panic sets in and things are slung in.

 

[sparkwright]

I can't back up my statement, but the slopes have all the characteristics of a ceiling IMO.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The rafters are insulated with silver foil,

I hope for your sake you don't mean some kind of multifoil product.

What is it exactly, what's it made of, how thick is it, and what R value do the makers claim?