Shoddy RSJJ installation problems

Joined
21 Feb 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
Hi guys, was wondering whether anyone could offer some advise regarding RSJs that our builder has installed.

The job was done at breakneck speed and as a result the RSJs weren't level which I challenged builder over. Subsequently, they've decided to try lowering them by 10mm to get them level. This has resulted in cracking and has left gaps between the RSJ and the timbers above. The builder has been packing these with wedges of wood to rectify a tilt I noticed on them too (again between the top of the RSJ and timber above). Today, he decided to use small steel shims to try and sort the tilts from below also.

My question is, in terms of above, what should he be doing to ensure no gap between the RSJs and the timbers? What should he be using?

He's created around about 5 cracks in the external walls with all the faffing around and internal cracks to newly finished plaster. Concerned about water ingress and house falling down because of the slapdash approach.

Please advise and thank you in advance.
 
Sponsored Links
Joined
2 Feb 2006
Messages
45,331
Reaction score
3,112
Location
Staffordshire
Country
United Kingdom
We use dense packing material such as Eternit slates etc when setting a steel beam below oddly sized joists. Joists are not exactly the same and they shrink at differing rates in any case. A beam can be slightly out of level with zero consequence as long as this is legislated for when boxing the beam in with the customary two layers of plasterboard.

However, if this beam is in an opening with say bi-folds beneath...…?
 
Joined
21 Feb 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
We use dense packing material such as Eternit slates etc when setting a steel beam below oddly sized joists. Joists are not exactly the same and they shrink at differing rates in any case. A beam can be slightly out of level with zero consequence as long as this is legislated for when boxing the beam in with the customary two layers of plasterboard.

However, if this beam is in an opening with say bi-folds beneath...…?

Thanks for the response, both the RSJs I'm concerned about are holding up the main body of the house. Essentially, we've a Victorian house with the rear extension. Works undertaken were side return and addition to back. The two steels have the wait of the upper floors on them hence why, to me, sticking wedges of wood above the RSJs and between the timbers in not sufficient. The beams are essentially level now but it's the void above them that is worrying, especially when numerous cracks have appeared on the inner and out walls.

If I'm going to tell the builder what I want done, are you saying slates with a mortar mix packed in tight? He was saying something like he couldnt use mortar as was going between steel and timber and not brick.
 
Joined
21 Feb 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
Gravity?

One of mine wasn’t level so I put a 10mm Steel spacer between the RSJ and padstone. That was before any timber was added though.


He's used small steel spacers to even up the bottom but the gap between the steal and the timber above is probably around 15mm plus in spaces as what Noseall said regarding timber shrinkage seems to apply here.

Thanks though. As I said, they've been slapdash, unfortunately wasn't able to be there to monitor things. If they'd thoroughly investigated what was above before hand they could have acted accordingly and we wouldn't be in situation now.
 
Sponsored Links
Joined
15 Sep 2017
Messages
28,007
Reaction score
2,033
Location
S. Uplands
Country
United Kingdom
The beam should not be tilted -I would suggest it wants to be pretty level across its width.

The RSJ should be fitted level, but 10mm out or so makes no difference structurally -generally a builder will set a beam dead level if its possible to do so because a level beam makes subsequent work easier. Im involved in a job where the builders cut a beam in half and joined it with cleats -all done properly but the beam now sags by about 30mm in the middle which is causing them no end of problems including having to counterbatten the whole ceiling

The timbers above can be packed with something that is fairly stiff, offcuts of plywood would be ok, or plastic glazing shims. whats important is that the end of each stud is fully packed down to the beam.

I assume you mean the house is timber frame above the beam?
 
Joined
21 Feb 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
The beam should not be tilted -I would suggest it wants to be pretty level across its width.

The RSJ should be fitted level, but 10mm out or so makes no difference structurally -generally a builder will set a beam dead level if its possible to do so because a level beam makes subsequent work easier. Im involved in a job where the builders cut a beam in half and joined it with cleats -all done properly but the beam now sags by about 30mm in the middle which is causing them no end of problems including having to counterbatten the whole ceiling

The timbers above can be packed with something that is fairly stiff, offcuts of plywood would be ok, or plastic glazing shims. whats important is that the end of each stud is fully packed down to the beam.

I assume you mean the house is timber frame above the beam?

Hiya, yeah, timber with brick commencing on top of the timbers. So essentially, as long as he packs with something durable and strong enough, we should be good? Cheers.
 
Joined
21 Feb 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
This is what it currently looks like. As you can see, quite a wedge of a gap there.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20190222_090922.jpg
    IMG_20190222_090922.jpg
    311.2 KB · Views: 465
  • IMG_20190222_090945.jpg
    IMG_20190222_090945.jpg
    268.8 KB · Views: 825
Joined
3 Sep 2006
Messages
36,003
Reaction score
4,991
Location
West Mids
Country
United Kingdom
Whats not level, the beam or the roof?

Any packing must be with dense material - normally natural slate, or clay tile.

Nice cold bridge with the red bricks above the patio doors. (y)

And what the hell is going on with all those cables going down to just two light switches?
 
Joined
21 Feb 2019
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Country
United Kingdom
Whats not level, the beam or the roof?

Any packing must be with dense material - normally natural slate, or clay tile.

Nice cold bridge with the red bricks above the patio doors. (y)

And what the hell is going on with all those cables going down to just two light switches?


Thanks Woody, will ensure I speak to builder aboutaoqcking withwadequate materials. With regard to the red bricks, I'm presuming you mean about cold air meeting hot air? Walls around bifolds are packed with insulation, does this not remedy any bridging issues?

Regarding switches, the wiring is to enable control of the different light zones from multiple points.
 
Sponsored Links
Top