Suggestions on how to install these lights, please help

[kilo_4que]

Hi guys I have some normal recessed downlights i.e. those that require a cut out of around 75 mm

Now I have a small triangular shaped room which has two sides around 200 inch, one side which is 160 inch and although it looks like a triangle it has a top side which is 60 inch

Now the problem i have is that using several stud detectors I can not locate the studs/joists in the ceiling and I was intending on fitting these lights in two lines consisting of 5 lights each. What would you guys recommend

I really do not think I will be able to get away with this without hitting a stud hence the reason im planning on drilling some pilot holes but nevertheless what would you guys do?

I also thought of getting something like 18mm MDF, attach the lights to that and hang that off the ceiling around 2 inch but would prefer not to

Likewise, all suggestions welcome guys

 

[GaryMo]

Assume this a downstairs room? If so, can you lift the carpet in the room above (if it is carpeted) and lift the boards?
If not, how were you thinking of drilling through joists (within allowable zones) without making a mess of the ceiling?

 

[Taylortwocities]

To expand on Gary's point. You have two issues:
1. Locating the downlights so they are not too close to joists or other itmes in the ceiling (pipes, wires, combustible material etc)
2. Running the wires from light to light - you'll certainly need to go through some joists - depends on how the ceiling is constructed.

Accessing the ceiling from above is the best method. Take up one row of floorboards and you will then be able to see the ceiling, joist positions and obstructions. You will also then have a route for your interconnecting cable(s).

Drilling pilot holes is a very approximate way of doing it. Even if the test hole is OK you can bet that you'll come too close to a joist when you drill your 70mm hole.

I hate downlights. They are a pain in the @RSE to install, as you are finding out!

 

[GaryMo]

1. Locating the downlights so they are not too close to joists or other itmes in the ceiling (combustible material etc)

That depends on the type of downlight. It may be rated for installation on or against normally flammable materials represented by a downwards facing triangle with a F in the middle.
If you see the same triangle with a F and a cross through it then it's not suitable.

 

[kilo_4que]

Assume this a downstairs room? If so, can you lift the carpet in the room above (if it is carpeted) and lift the boards?
If not, how were you thinking of drilling through joists (within allowable zones) without making a mess of the ceiling?

Taylor and Gary, first of all id like to thank you guys for the replies.

Now regarding the ceiling and what floor it is on, It is in fact the top floor i.e. no access from above.

Regarding how I was thinking of drilling the pilot holes through the joists im assuming your referring to. Well the thing is the whole scheduling went t1ts up due to unforseen circumstances which left me lumbered with plasterers having to come in before the sparky and prior to that I had seen the timber structure above so had an idea of where some of the timbers are.

This aside I thought it wouldnt have been too much of an issue locating the timber joists using a stud detector.

The ceiling in the room itself is split into three parts. The first two are larger rectangular areas seperated by beams with the final area being this tricky triangular area.

Now when i bought my stud detector, I purchased a more professional version in the Stanley range to make sure i get a better reading but this was rubbish. In total I purchased and returned two Stanley detectors, a Ryobi detector, black and decker detector and finally settled with the cheapest B&Q own brand.

This worked very good for the first two parts of the ceiling and I located all studs including noggins very well

This however didnt happen when it come to the triangular bit. So after a long historic explanation Im sure you get an idea of where I stand in this whole palava. I thought the stud detector would have been ideal for this part of the ceiling two but it just goes bonkers

Likewise my good friends (i hope your not too bored yet lol) would you think it is a better idea if I was to buy some 18mm MDF, fix the recessed lights to this and hang this approx 2-3 inch off the ceiling via chain/hook method? I think this may look a little more trendy as well at the same time

 

[securespark]

It might be that your small triangular area is finished with foil-backed board, hence the detector goes nuts.

So if it is top-floor & you have no access, how are you going to run the cables?

Don't you have a loft space of some sort?

 

[dingodeano]

I hate downlights. They are a pain in the @a**e to install

Here here!

 

[kilo_4que]

It might be that your small triangular area is finished with foil-backed board, hence the detector goes nuts.

So if it is top-floor & you have no access, how are you going to run the cables?

Don't you have a loft space of some sort?

No no the triangular area is exactly the same finish as the other parts however the timber structure in this area was here from before. The other two areas I put the structure up myself, that may be an issue but I dont see why it should

Regarding the electrics, the points were put in place before the ceiling was put up, thank goodness. So although it still is a ball ache, its not as bad as having to somehow get a electrical point in.

Also my initial intentions were to install a couple of 228mm diameter recessed commercial downlights in this area also as i am doin with the other areas. With them I knew the since I have a 210mm cut out, there is some play for me to fish wiring through easier. With these smaller downlights that would have been way too difficult, therefore im assuming the best thing to do would be to get a panel of MDF.

Cut to a nice size and fix the downlights to this. Then hang this off the ceiling around 2-3 inches, what do you guys reckon?

 

[Click-Sure]

MDF seems like the way to go, saw a good idea the other day too (it has its limitations) where downlights were fixed into holes cut into cable tray, bolted to the ceiling using conventional methods! Looked really cool in my mind, but I like the industrial look

Pink MDF is fire rated, green is moisture resistant.

 

[kilo_4que]

Ah didnt know MDF come in different variants

 

[Click-Sure]

And densities too.

For the more specialised stuff like the pink fire resistant, you will probably need to go to a merchant that deals a lot with plasterboard and the like.

Can't really see that you'd need it for this application tho.

 

[GaryMo]

Again, make sure your chosen fittings are designed for mounting in or against flammable surfaces.

 

[securespark]

And densities too.

Isn't the clue in the word "medium" as in, MEDIUM density fibreboard?



Pink board would look nice...

On a serious note, make sure the fittings are "F" marked if mounting in MDF.

 

[kilo_4que]

Thanks for the replies guys, regarding the fittings. They are not Firerated to be honest so would you think 18mm of the pink stuff would be better to use?

 

[kilo_4que]

Also guys I posted on another part of the forum too, im struggling to find a cost effective way to cut precise 210 mm diameter circle in drylined ceilings. This is for my other recessed downlights and i need to cut 30 holes out lol