Sunak says a Man is a Man.

[Lower]

I didn't hear him talking about "gender" which is current parlance is used to mean a feeling, a whim, a desire, a self-professed claim.

He did however talk about "sex" which is a biological reality.

I suppose you are trying to muddy the waters again by pretending you think they are the same.

I think they are the same, and there are still only two.

 

[JohnD]

I think they are the same, and there are still only two.

Then you need to find a new word for the self-identity born of fantasy or whim.

 

[motorbiking]

I always struggle with the grammar of they/them - which largely implies a group.

 

[blup]

No problem with they/them, it also covers people that you don't necessarily want to identify the gender of. No problem with trans folk, they are generally the gender they were born with (some people are genuinely intersex), why is it discriminatory to refer to them by their original gender but at the same time protect them from discrimination.

Blup

 

[DiyNutJob]

I think they are the same, and there are still only two.

That's not right. Inter-sex is possible in small numbers. There is more than two caused by natural biology errors. The problem isn't that there is more than two, but that the interest of the few overrides the interest of the many.

 

[motorbiking]

No problem with they/them, it also covers people that you don't necessarily want to identify the gender of. No problem with trans folk, they are generally the gender they were born with (some people are genuinely intersex), why is it discriminatory to refer to them by their original gender but at the same time protect them from discrimination.

Blup

It isn't discrimination on its own, could be impolite. If you misgender someone as part of bullying harassment or discrimination then thats different. With the current group think among HR, it would be a very risky thing to refuse to use a gender pro-noun that a person has asked for.

A trans person I used to work with said, she wasn't bothered if people referred to her as he/him. After all we all worked with he/him when he was a bloke. he/she had a sensible approach to the whole thing.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Some argue both can be changed. Which is nonsense

Who does?
Certainly sex change can be virtually accomplished. But currently there are limits. And usually it's a case of removing ambiguity.
Gender is the preference of the individual.
As Rejsirin says:

Being trans is not imposing personal values on society, there are simply reordering and correcting a mistake made by society in the first place. Namely, the sex and gender assigned to a child at birth. No person should ever struggle under the burden of projected identities, be it race, religion, sex, culture, or gender identity, and as such the right to simply be yourself is the paramount trans right.

 

[blup]

It isn't discrimination on its own, could be impolite. If you misgender someone as part of bullying harassment or discrimination then thats different. With the current group think among HR, it would be a very risky thing to refuse to use a gender pro-noun that a person has asked for.

A trans person I used to work with said, she wasn't bothered if people referred to her as he/him. After all we all worked with he/him when he was a bloke. he/she had a sensible approach to the whole thing.

I wouldn't misgender intentionally, I was making a moral point about the broader debate. Sadly the tories have decided to make it part of their culture war, and that forces people to take sides on what is quite nuanced debate, while the question of how to further protect trans rights moves forward.

Blup

 

[Roy Bloom]

There are only 2 sexes, 2 genders. Male, female.

Everything else is made up.

Nature is unreliable, unpredictable, fallible, and totally random.
Medical science can lend a hand to reduce the unreliability, the unpredictability, the fallibility and the randomness.
It can also intervene if required to correct cases due to nature's randomness.

Gender is about how you preferred of how you want to live your life.

 

[Roy Bloom]

"gender"

"sex"

I suppose you are trying to muddy the waters again by pretending you think they are the same.

Nonsense, it is you who claimed they are the same with your repetitive "man is not a woman".

'Man' and 'woman' are definitions of a gender.
And a man who wants to be a woman is recognised as a woman, and is expected to be treated as a woman.
And vice versa. But strangely you have no concern about trans men.

 

[noseall]

Gender is about how you preferred of how you want to live your life.

So you are saying it's simply a lifestyle thing? Almost like acting? So you could lump it in with all sorts of other lifestyle choices, if that's the case. However, you still wouldn't expect a villainous panto drag character bloke, to be automatically allowed to shower with the women, just because his choice was to portray a female character.

 

[Roy Bloom]

I think they are the same, and there are still only two.

You taking what JohnD says as the truth?
That's novel.

 

[Roy Bloom]

, but that the interest of the few overrides the interest of the many.

Nonsense. That's the anti-trans activists fomenting fear of a minority group with their lies and fake news.

Being trans is not imposing personal values on society, there are simply reordering and correcting a mistake made by society in the first place.

Rejserin

 

[Notch7]

Him saying its common sense is going to alienate several in here Notch being an prime example

Sunak is pandering to people too stupid to understand biological sex and gender means different things

If you can’t understand the difference….

 

[Notch7]

I think they are the same, and there are still only two.

Biological sex and gender aren’t really the same thing

The reason is because some people feel they are born in the wrong body. For example a person who is biologically male may feel they are female.

It is not just a whim, often these people suffer terrible torment in their lives. People that suffer from gender dysphoria have high suicide rates.