Test, Track and Trace?

[denso13]

then perhaps you were wrong to suggest it was murder.

Apologies if I'm wrong but you did seem to say that...

UK took extra trouble to ensure that infected people were sent out of hospital and into care homes, WITHOUT BEING TESTED in order to maximise the number of frail and vulnerable people that were infected and died.

If that is true then it was a deliberate action surely?

 

[JohnD]

1) Deliberate action
UK took extra trouble to ensure that infected people were sent out of hospital and into care homes, WITHOUT BEING TESTED

2) Foreseeable consequences
maximise the number of frail and vulnerable people that were infected and died.

If I tip petrol over you, and strike a match, are the consequences foreseeable?

If I then go and tip petrol over other people, should I already know what may happen?

If I have read reports of streets in Italy, Spain and US being littered with charred corpses, should I take warning?

Did we have prior knowledge that deaths in nursing and care homes were overwhelming in countries that were ahead of us?

 

[denso13]

If I tip petrol over you, and strike a match, are the consequences foreseeable?

Yes, that's murder, hopefully someone would call the police.

 

[JohnD]

March 2020

"Coronavirus: Spanish army finds care home residents 'dead and abandoned'"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52014023

 

[JohnD]

April 2020

"The ‘silent massacre’ in Italy’s nursing homes

Care homes for the elderly have become hotbeds of the coronavirus epidemic."

https://www.politico.eu/article/the...ly-milan-lombardy-nursing-care-homes-elderly/

 

[JohnD]

"Care homes failed by lack of PPE during UK Covid first wave, say MPs

Report says government mishandling put lives at risk and exposes potential conflict of interests"

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ack-of-ppe-during-uk-covid-first-wave-say-mps

"The report says that decision to prioritise hospitals for PPE meant care home workers and residents were not properly protected. Photograph: Murdo MacLeod/The Guardian

Care homes were left exposed and vulnerable by a lack of personal protective equipment early in the pandemic, while the government’s handling of the procurement left ministers open to accusations of conflicts of interest, MPs have found.


A damning report published on Wednesday by the Commons public accounts committee (PAC) concludes that the Department of Health and Social Care’s decision to prioritise hospitals for PPE meant care home workers and residents were not properly protected."

 

[denso13]

"Care homes failed by lack of PPE during UK Covid first wave, say MPs

I keep trying to respond, tell me when you're done.

 

[JohnD]

the tragedy will continue.

 

[denso13]

the tragedy will continue.

It is an absolute tragedy. It has been horrendous whatever the side of the fence you are on but I don't think it is murder.

 

[JohnD]

"On 25 March (2020), the prime minister promised sufficient PPE would arrive with care workers by the end of last week. But MHA said on Tuesday that its staff were regularly using up their week’s supply of face masks from the government in a single day, and nine of its homes have “dangerously low” amounts of kit.


A survey of 10 care homes in the Barking, east London, constituency of the Labour MP Margaret Hodge on Monday also found that eight were struggling with shortages, particularly of goggles."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...f-at-breaking-point-as-coronavirus-cases-rise

 

[denso13]

"On 25 March (2020), the prime minister promised sufficient PPE would arrive with care workers by the end of last week. But MHA said on Tuesday that its staff were regularly using up their week’s supply of face masks from the government in a single day, and nine of its homes have “dangerously low” amounts of kit.


A survey of 10 care homes in the Barking, east London, constituency of the Labour MP Margaret Hodge on Monday also found that eight were struggling with shortages, particularly of goggles."

Mistakes yes, not murder.

 

[JohnD]

April 2020

https://www.ft.com/content/86d9807e-2a47-47b2-8dff-8ab50b16e036



"Four weeks after Prime Minister Boris Johnson locked the UK down, the frail residents of the country’s 11,300 care homes have emerged as the hidden victims of an overwhelmed, underprepared system plagued by shifting guidelines that some experts fear have had lethal consequences.

Although the homes were quick to warn authorities about a shortage of protective gear and testing, they say their concerns were ignored as the virus began to spread.

“It was a mistake not to prioritise care homes from the start,” said Martin Green, chief executive of Care England, a charity which represents the large care home chains. “We knew the 430,000 people in care homes included some of the most vulnerable people.”

 

[JohnD]

report in the Sunday Times newspaper quoted one unnamed Downing Street adviser saying: “There’s no way you’re at war if your PM isn’t there

"Coronavirus: 38 days when Britain sleepwalked into disaster
Boris Johnson skipped five Cobra meetings on the virus, calls to order protective gear were ignored and scientists’ warnings fell on deaf ears. Failings in February may have cost thousands of lives"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...n-britain-sleepwalked-into-disaster-hq3b9tlgh

The FT said

"The prime minister chaired his first Cobra meeting on the crisis on March 2 and had spent much of the latter part of February outside London at his grace-and-favour home at Chevening in Kent."

 

[SirGalahad]

What he's saying is that the 'usual suspects' who were bitching last year because we had no effective track and trace system in place are the same people who are now bitching that we're spending too much on it.

I think you know this though don't you.

You do know they are not mutually exclusive.

Test Trace and Tax

Get your wallet out and start paying it down.

Add it on to the billions wasted in PPE.

Make sure your kids pay up as well.

 

[SirGalahad]

The track and trace element has certainly been a failure, but I don't think it ever had a chance of really working. Dozens of building contractors I know said they won't answer the phone if they don't recognise the number and even if they were contacted there is no way they would isolate. The fact is we are a Nation of individuals who make our own minds up about things. We won't be told what to do when it comes to our liberty. But the vast majority if the money (an unbelievable amount?) has been spent on testing, which is what everybody wanted until they realised how much it was costing.

Lol.

Testing and not giving contracts to your mates company. It was made pointed out by many - use the staff and resources of councils to do the tracing as they had local knowledge but that meant using public services - where the money in that - have to spaff it up the wall with your mates comapny.

So instead of increasing the capacity of the NHS there was a mad dash to bring in private operators.

We needed testing and tracing but we ddidnt need a privatised shoddy crony system which you and your kids will be paying for.

Where is your liberty now? You will be told exactky what to do when it comes to paying for this. No say in that.