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david and julie
No definately not knock, I have never been there. The guy I was working with had worked at knock and he said it was about an hour away southwards.
The EU Referendum
- Thread starter Freddie
- Start date
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And why exactly do people who can afford boats to play about on deserve cheap fuel?
This is not an in depth analysis of the EU constitution line by line. If I had the time I am sure it would be interesting to read it. As I do not, I rely upon all the news reports and analysis which appears in newspapers and TV from time to time. This has reported exactly what I have said. One side claims the constitution will essentially make no difference to the existing situation. The other that everything evil you could possibly imagine will now come to pass.
From the everyday standpoint I find it much more likely that the first is true than the second. The Eu generally finds it very difficult to agree to change anything. I know it is only a tidying up exercise because no politican in this country would ever agree to anything else. Nor would his conterparts from other countries.
I notice you have underlined several points about the new constitution overruling national laws. There is absolutely nothing new in this either. As you said yourself, commitments under the existing treaties are already binding upon the UK parliament, (though westminster reserves unto itself the right to revoke any or all treaties it has ever signed up to)
Nothing is going to change with regard to national vetoes just because of this new treaty. Every now and then some sort of veto or derogation is given up. But as I said first, what exactly is the sense of supplying cheap fuel for yachts? It may be thats ome of these derogations are in reality pretty pointless.
The creation of a european army is a big issue at the moment, because of the Americans. The Americans want to kep NATO because they control it. It just might be that we shall someday require a system of putting together the European states armies when America is on the other side of the conflict.
A constitution which actually enshrines in law the rights of citizens? Excellent idea.
I fear the item you quote sonds like the case according to the Europhobes. The main problem for them is that this treaty would indeed create a better defined international entity representing the EU with its own president etc, etc. Very interesting, but there are lots of international states or organisations. If I remember correctly the worlds smallest state is Rockall, somewhere off Scotland? One lighthouse which by accident has become a country and even issues its own passports and is entitled to a place in the un etc, etc.
This argument against the constitution is exactly the same argument which has been used to object to the euro. The reasoning goes, before anyone could create a European superstate they would have to create a currency, they would have to create a legal framework, they would have to have a head of state, and so on. One way to stop the superstate would be to stop one of these essential prerequisites. So these people opose the Euro not because it is a bad idea, but because in future it might help the creation of such a superstate.
But the fact is that the Euro has merit on its own and will almost certainly become the strongest trading currency in the world. Sorting out the Eropean treaties is also a good idea. Whether this particular treaty is the best possible I do not know. It is of course a compromise between what everyone wants and what everyone is willing to accept.
This is not an in depth analysis of the EU constitution line by line. If I had the time I am sure it would be interesting to read it. As I do not, I rely upon all the news reports and analysis which appears in newspapers and TV from time to time. This has reported exactly what I have said. One side claims the constitution will essentially make no difference to the existing situation. The other that everything evil you could possibly imagine will now come to pass.
From the everyday standpoint I find it much more likely that the first is true than the second. The Eu generally finds it very difficult to agree to change anything. I know it is only a tidying up exercise because no politican in this country would ever agree to anything else. Nor would his conterparts from other countries.
I notice you have underlined several points about the new constitution overruling national laws. There is absolutely nothing new in this either. As you said yourself, commitments under the existing treaties are already binding upon the UK parliament, (though westminster reserves unto itself the right to revoke any or all treaties it has ever signed up to)
Nothing is going to change with regard to national vetoes just because of this new treaty. Every now and then some sort of veto or derogation is given up. But as I said first, what exactly is the sense of supplying cheap fuel for yachts? It may be thats ome of these derogations are in reality pretty pointless.
The creation of a european army is a big issue at the moment, because of the Americans. The Americans want to kep NATO because they control it. It just might be that we shall someday require a system of putting together the European states armies when America is on the other side of the conflict.
A constitution which actually enshrines in law the rights of citizens? Excellent idea.
I fear the item you quote sonds like the case according to the Europhobes. The main problem for them is that this treaty would indeed create a better defined international entity representing the EU with its own president etc, etc. Very interesting, but there are lots of international states or organisations. If I remember correctly the worlds smallest state is Rockall, somewhere off Scotland? One lighthouse which by accident has become a country and even issues its own passports and is entitled to a place in the un etc, etc.
This argument against the constitution is exactly the same argument which has been used to object to the euro. The reasoning goes, before anyone could create a European superstate they would have to create a currency, they would have to create a legal framework, they would have to have a head of state, and so on. One way to stop the superstate would be to stop one of these essential prerequisites. So these people opose the Euro not because it is a bad idea, but because in future it might help the creation of such a superstate.
But the fact is that the Euro has merit on its own and will almost certainly become the strongest trading currency in the world. Sorting out the Eropean treaties is also a good idea. Whether this particular treaty is the best possible I do not know. It is of course a compromise between what everyone wants and what everyone is willing to accept.
D
david and julie
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Damocles you have just comented on a lot of things that you have no experience of, this is not a critism as you say most of what you know is off the tele like a few others, but you cant lay bricks from watching a film on the tele.
D
david and julie
Damocles you don't half take a long time to say nothing.
I only used the picture of the powerboat as an example, we don't see many of them in Manchester!
You mentioned derogations so I replied with that because I knew about the yachts. Tell me what else do we get derogations on?
btw, if you believe that only yachts and powerboats use red diesel you are even more naive than I thought.
I only used the picture of the powerboat as an example, we don't see many of them in Manchester!
You mentioned derogations so I replied with that because I knew about the yachts. Tell me what else do we get derogations on?
btw, if you believe that only yachts and powerboats use red diesel you are even more naive than I thought.
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david and julie
Not by plane its not. 
well it was not me who chose the example of red diesel for recreational boaters. i would assume you chose your best example of what we risk losing. Someone might have a list, I don't. VAT is one. Have to say that the special low rate of VAT on electricity is ridiculous. Was it VAT on newspapers also? subsidising the press barons?
Which treaties have you read then? I still have a copy of maastricht somewhere.
Why do you think that the EU beurocracy would work any different to our own? People here rush to spend their budget at the end of the year exactly the same. This is hardly news.
Rising prices because of the Euro? Well now, I think probably not. I think that for the most part since people had to issue a new price in Euros they took the opportunity to incorporate a price rise. But you would have had exactly the same price rise anyway. Only it would have come in your previous currency. But people naturally decided to all do it on the same day because they had to make a change anyway. i recall seeing some statistics which demonstrated this.
I find films about bricklaying very helpfull.
Iam not quite sure what you are saying about fraud. Aren't you just saying that the Irish have done their very best to make the most of each and every opportunity presented by the EU?
Which treaties have you read then? I still have a copy of maastricht somewhere.
Why do you think that the EU beurocracy would work any different to our own? People here rush to spend their budget at the end of the year exactly the same. This is hardly news.
Rising prices because of the Euro? Well now, I think probably not. I think that for the most part since people had to issue a new price in Euros they took the opportunity to incorporate a price rise. But you would have had exactly the same price rise anyway. Only it would have come in your previous currency. But people naturally decided to all do it on the same day because they had to make a change anyway. i recall seeing some statistics which demonstrated this.
I find films about bricklaying very helpfull.
Iam not quite sure what you are saying about fraud. Aren't you just saying that the Irish have done their very best to make the most of each and every opportunity presented by the EU?
B
Big_Spark
Freddie said:
hahahahaha..I like it...
Regards the rest..I'm off to bed, but I shall be reading some material on the constitution tomorrow and will get back into this tomorrow night..
I'll try to find some other info too.
D
david and julie
So you have no problem charging poor people more VAT on their fuel and schools for their books?
What is all this extra taxation for and what is the purpose of the EU?
Why do you hate the US so much do you have a reason?
Taxes go to government. Government pays for chools. Schools buy books. taxes go to government?????
The normal thing which happens if something gets a subsidy comparedto other things is that the manufacturers put the price up and take the extra money for themselves.
Why should private schools get cheap books, or members of parliament get cheap electricity? If you want to help the poor design better social benefits. Perhaps vochers for books for those on low incomes?
What extra taxation? There is hardly space to slide a cigarette paper between any of the major parties when it comes to calculating how much tax is needed.
The purpose of the EU is to give all its citizens a pbetter life. So far it has probably doen this in a rather modest sort of way.
i do not hate the US at all. They are just getting on with trying to run the world to suit their best interest. Just like every other country. I merely point out that all we are doing is patting the head of a tiger. One day it will bite. Far too many people think it is a pussycat. If there is a tiger on the loose, best thing to do is buy a big gun, just in case.
The normal thing which happens if something gets a subsidy comparedto other things is that the manufacturers put the price up and take the extra money for themselves.
Why should private schools get cheap books, or members of parliament get cheap electricity? If you want to help the poor design better social benefits. Perhaps vochers for books for those on low incomes?
What extra taxation? There is hardly space to slide a cigarette paper between any of the major parties when it comes to calculating how much tax is needed.
The purpose of the EU is to give all its citizens a pbetter life. So far it has probably doen this in a rather modest sort of way.
i do not hate the US at all. They are just getting on with trying to run the world to suit their best interest. Just like every other country. I merely point out that all we are doing is patting the head of a tiger. One day it will bite. Far too many people think it is a pussycat. If there is a tiger on the loose, best thing to do is buy a big gun, just in case.
D
david and julie
I am sorry Damocles but I am struggling to discuss this with someone of such obvious low intelligence, any chance of getting your mum or dad on here instead?
B
Big_Spark
I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding occuring here Guys..
VAT was a tax introduced to fund the EU, and Maximum rates are set by the EU independent of Local Governments..HOWEVER
Local Governments do have the Power to add VAT to ANYTHING they like, except for a handful of pre-agreed items/service, and at any rate between 1% and the Maxmum permissable. Further, this extra VAT need not be used to fund the EU either.
In fact over 80% of the VAT so raised in the UK goes into the coffers of the Exchequer and NOT the EU as many believe.
The VAT on School books was not introduced by Europe onto the UK, it was imposed by the Government who then blamed Europe as they are a great scape goat..The Europeans actually questioned this at the time as Education and Educational products fall into the Excluded category..
This is one of the big problems in the UK..we are so used to blaming the EU for all manner of things, our own Government blames them and we all accept it in general.
If you wonder how I know this..I have a cousin who was a former VAT inspector for HM Customs and Exise, he now works in their Legal Unit ploughing through the VAT legislation and working out ways that it should be adhered too.
VAT was a tax introduced to fund the EU, and Maximum rates are set by the EU independent of Local Governments..HOWEVER
Local Governments do have the Power to add VAT to ANYTHING they like, except for a handful of pre-agreed items/service, and at any rate between 1% and the Maxmum permissable. Further, this extra VAT need not be used to fund the EU either.
In fact over 80% of the VAT so raised in the UK goes into the coffers of the Exchequer and NOT the EU as many believe.
The VAT on School books was not introduced by Europe onto the UK, it was imposed by the Government who then blamed Europe as they are a great scape goat..The Europeans actually questioned this at the time as Education and Educational products fall into the Excluded category..
This is one of the big problems in the UK..we are so used to blaming the EU for all manner of things, our own Government blames them and we all accept it in general.
If you wonder how I know this..I have a cousin who was a former VAT inspector for HM Customs and Exise, he now works in their Legal Unit ploughing through the VAT legislation and working out ways that it should be adhered too.
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